Wikidata:Property proposal/Archive/32

Motivation

Used in various infobox templates and would be better handled at the Wikidata level. Zolo (talk) 06:14, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

  Not done - already exists, as number of elevators (P1301). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:47, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

@Zolo:. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:48, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

• Motivation is to improve the accessibility of these open data services: -Tobias1984 (talk) 16:51, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
• Would also allow us to translate this list into other languages: en:List of online map services. -Tobias1984 (talk) 17:19, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
• The URL given in the example has been displaying a server error, for several days. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:11, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

  Not done - still showing a server error. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:53, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Motivation

CulturaItalia (Q19858649) is a project dedicated to the Italian cultural heritage, which combines the data coming from several cultural projects and transmits them to Europeana (Q234110). This would be also part of the recently started collaboration between Wikimedia Italia (Q15136611) and Istituto Centrale per il Catalogo Unico (Q3803707). Sannita (ICCU) (talk) 11:41, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

  Support. @Sannita (ICCU): how many objects you got there? If oai:culturaitalia.it: is a constant partn, shorten the ID by removing this part. --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 11:29, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

@Vladimir Alexiev: I still don't know, I'm still trying to get the whole dataset. Unfortunately, I found out that "oai:culturaitalia.it" is not a constant part, since it defines the source the data comes from. Initially, it would probably just suffice, but there are other data sources in the database (such as Touring Club Italiano (Q1069349)), which are cited as such. Yeah, I know, it's not the way it should be, this is partly the reason why I work as a WiR at ICCU... :( --Sannita (ICCU) (talk) 12:39, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

A little update: there will be for sure 489 possible matches coming from MuseiD-Italia, for sure I will start from them. Sannita (ICCU) (talk) 13:15, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

  Support --Accurimbono (talk) 08:57, 13 June 2015 (UTC)   Support--L736E (talk) 14:51, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

@Sannita (ICCU), Vladimir Alexiev, Accurimbono, L736E:   Done CulturaItalia ID (P1949) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:56, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Motivation

The CERL Thesaurus files places, names, personal names and corporate names coming mainly from material printed before the second half of XIX century. The files include multilanguage forms and variant spellings for each name, as well as the authority reference sources (e.g. GND, SBN,..). Fictious names are covered as well. All major European libraries cooperate in providing the authority information, full list here. This is an identifier with continental scope (Europe). Contents are released with ODC-BY and CC-BY 2.0 licenses.L736E (talk) 18:37, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

•   Support, Hazmat2 (talk) 18:53, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

  Not done Duplicate of CERL Thesaurus ID (P1871). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:31, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

In a variety of religious infobox templates. Rank here is independent of the occupation or position of a person, and is more analogous to military or police rank (P410). Alias: rank. Sweet kate (talk) 19:22, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

  Weak oppose If position held (P39) is not enough, try honorific prefix (P511) and academic degree (P512).--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 23:50, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Hmmm. But it is not a position, honorific prefix, or academic degree. It's a rank. It does not relate to the position held or education earned. And honorific prefixes are already used in different ways for these same people — someone with religious rank cardinal (Q45722) has the honorific prefix His Eminence (Q1337757). I see that military or police rank (P410) was approved with no real issues, and I am unsure how this is really any different. --Sweet kate (talk) 15:47, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

(See my further thoughts above below under consecration date too.) Sweet kate (talk) 15:55, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

@Sweet kate: What's the difference beetween a rank and a position ? Positions can be hierarchicaly ordered (hence the ranking). And usually cardinals are cardinal of somewhere, just like mayors. The difference seems to be the organisation, a state or a church, that's all ... TomT0m ^(talk) 19:13, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

  Support I think this is a separate semantic concept that can't be covered by existing properties. --Tobias1984 (talk) 09:26, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Why do you think instance of (P31) can´t do the job? Meanwhile I´ve weekened my position, but I think we need a more generic concept, that can be used for military ranks as well or every other hierarchy. I tend to widen up the use of military or police rank (P410) and change the label from "military rank" to "rank" instead of creating a new one.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 11:34, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

You wouldn't use instance of (P31) for particulars like this anymore than you'd use it to replace position held (P39) or occupation (P106) — an individual is always inherently a human, but not inherently, at their essence, a particular rank (or position or occupation). Ranks have start dates, and go in and out of being "true"/preferred. (Once you're promoted to colonel you're not a private anymore.) I'd be fine expanding military or police rank (P410), but I don't know if the military-knowledgeable people would have a reason to disagree? If we do that I'd want that to have a mandatory qualifier of of (P642) — a person is rank "bishop" of (P642) => the Catholic Church or rank "general" of (P642) => the US Army. (Or whatever. Really it seems like that should be mandatory with military or police rank (P410) anyway. Ranks only mean anything if you know what the ranking system is.) Sweet kate (talk) 18:18, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

OK. I´d support to modify military or police rank (P410) in order to be able to use it for all kinds of hierarchy and to make of (P642) mandatory to describe what kind of hierarchy.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 13:13, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Agreed, military or police rank (P410) should be able to be expanded, as even if someone holds both a military and a religious rank, qualifiers can define which hierarchy each is held within. Josh Baumgartner (talk) 18:15, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

  Oppose for Catholic Church: bishop (Q29182) or cardinal (Q45722) are fonctions not ranks. — Ayack (talk) 16:30, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Wrong, a bishop is not a function. This a special ceremony to become bishop and the bishop gets some special attributes which are independent of its function. Snipre (talk) 18:43, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

The mysterious of human semantic will always astonish me.

This is simple: a position is something you can leave after X years, you can stop to a bishop or a carinal even once you retired. It is like a PhD or a doctor title: once you have it you can keep it all our life. For example you don't have a end tiem parameter for cardinal or bishop. Snipre (talk) 05:54, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

@Snipre: Mmm I think that in france we are supposed to call a former prime minister or a president monsieur le président even after they left ... TomT0m ^(talk) 16:38, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

@TomT0m: Please read that document, chapter 9, to see how is considered a retired bishop: "L’Évêque émérite continue d’être membre du Collège épiscopal « en vertu de la consécration sacramentelle et par la communion hiérarchique entre le chef et les membres du Collège »". So he is still considered as a bishop and can act as a bishop in administrative way. He can participate to bishop conferences and can represent an episcopal conference of a country. This is not an honorific title like for civil positions but can still have interactions in the "government of Church" (see his possibility to take part to Concile if invited). I never see an old president taking part to several ministres meetings. Snipre (talk) 20:58, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

•   Weak oppose Other properties seems to do the job quite well, and we do not really have clear definitions of the differences. If we had we could see the similarities and see whether or not the context is enough ... for example if
  ⟨ bishop ⟩ instance of (P31)   ⟨ catholic rank ⟩
  and
  ⟨ the bishop ⟩ instance of (P31)   ⟨ bishop ⟩
  , and
  ⟨ the bishop ⟩ position help Search ⟨ paris bishop ⟩
  Q382920 Search ⟨ {{{5}}} ⟩
  , and
  ⟨ the bishop ⟩ instance of (P31)   ⟨ bishop ⟩
  , what's the matter, with bishop defined as catholic person ordained by others bishop,
  ⟨ bishop ⟩ subclass of (P279)   ⟨ human ⟩
  , and
  ⟨ The bishop ⟩ significant event (P793)   ⟨ ordination ⟩
  point in time (P585)   ⟨ whatever date ⟩
  ordinator Search ⟨ theotherbishop1 ⟩
  ordinator Search ⟨ theotherbishop2... ⟩
  (or with an event item for its ordination) ? TomT0m ^(talk) 19:13, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Strong oppose It is an office like any other.. No argument is given why it should be different. GerardM (talk) 07:37, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Not done. Consensus has not been established for a new property. Please use existing properties instead. MSGJ (talk) 12:05, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Motivation

The Database of Classical Scholars (DBCS) is a project by Ward W. Briggs and the Center for Digital Humanities of the University of South Carolina. The DBCS provides biographical and bibliographical information on scholars from the US and the UK, but aspires to some day cover all of America and Europe. All data is licensed under CC BY-SA 4.0 and therefor very useful to the Wikimedia projects. Since many of my articles are based on DBCS entries and many more articles are still to be created, it would be very useful to add this as a reference. Jonathan Groß (talk) 18:43, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

P.S.: I already created a BEACON list of all the entries in the database and will add the property to all fitting WD items. Transclusion to other Wikimedia projects (with a template in the "external links" section) would be a good thing, too. Jonathan Groß (talk) 06:55, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Better move this proposal to persons page. Snipre (talk) 07:11, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Done. Jonathan Groß (talk) 08:57, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

•   Support but the datatype should be 'string' since the number is an identifier, not a quantity - 1.5 doesn't mean anything. Should probably be on the 'Authority control' rather than the persons page. Once it's created the info can be added to the authority control template on wikipedia. Filceolaire (talk) 08:24, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

  Alright, changed it accordingly. Jonathan Groß (talk) 17:43, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

•   Support Josh Baumgartner (talk) 17:54, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

@Jonathan Groß, Snipre, Filceolaire, Joshbaumgartner:   Done Database of Classical Scholars ID (P1935) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:43, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Useful disambiguator; and source of open-source texts. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:15, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

•   Comment: shouldn't this be "25179" in the sample?
  • Yes; fixed, thank you. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:34, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
• I'd add ".org" to the name of the property as texts may be available elsewhere. --- Jura 13:43, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
  • The text may be, but this is the identifier at "Project Gutenberg"; there's only one of those. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:34, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
•   Comment I have a lot of experience with PG. I have just completed a project to map all 20,000+ author names on the PG website to equivalent Wikipedia article names. Often names differ wildly so its not easy to determine that "XYZ" on PG is the same as "DFG" on Wikipedia. But I have compiled a database that is complete, about 9200 names map to Wikipedia, the rest have no Wikipedia article. The database is not based on numbers, but on names. Because PG does not make public author numbers, and they disallow robots from scraping the site to find them. So for the example above, in the PG database (available in catalog.rdf at http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Gutenberg:Feeds) it maps to "Murray, David Christie" which can be found with the URL http://www.gutenberg.org/author/Murray,+David+Christie .. there are no author numbers in the Gutenberg catalog. Further, it is sometimes better so search on names because Gutenberg has duplicates in the database where the same person has two different accounts under slightly different (or related) names - doing a link via name thus finds them not just one. I guess this is a long story, but before this field is created and work put into, I suggest we contact PG and find out what they suggest is best going forward: using the publicly available name info found in catalog.rdf - or use the author number which is not publicly available in any database and can't be scrapped from the website and we have no idea if PG plans on keeping those numbers in the future. I don't normally log into Wikidata feel free to contact me over at en. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 20:49, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
  • The page you link to - http://www.gutenberg.org/author/Murray,+David+Christie - is a search page, not an author profile. The author page, to which your example links, is the one I give in my example. Compare http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/authors/search/?query=Smith+John which list several people called "John Smith", or variants thereof. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:16, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
    • Talk to Andy - This is true the author profile page has a number https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/25179 .. however this number is not publicly available - there is no way to get it as PG won't allow scrapping. (Short of someone manually checking each author page which is nearly impossible at this scale.) I don't know if this number will remain consistent - there is probably a reason PG doesn't publish the number in its database at http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Gutenberg:Feeds - they may change the numbers in the future? However I can try to contact PG again and see what they say about this and if they would allow scrapping. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 15:57, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
•   Comment ps. if name strings are used instead of numbers, there will need to be a mechanism for multiple IDs since that is the case sometimes. For example multiple people share the same Wikipedia article (husband and wife authors etc) but whom each have unique PG name IDs. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 20:53, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
•   Comment Also.. there are multiple Project Gutenbergs. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 13:31, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
•   Support even tough it will be tricky to map the PG identifiers with Wikidata items --Pasleim (talk) 22:49, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
•   Done: Project Gutenberg author ID (P1938) MSGJ (talk) 11:57, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Motivation

I was looking for a way to link murderers to their victims. This is the inverse of killed by (P157) Jane023 (talk) 08:29, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

  Comment last discussion: Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/23#killed --Pasleim (talk) 20:53, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the link! Should I go support that one? Because I totally agree we need it. For well known murderers, it's nice to be able to link them actively to their victims and not just passively (through queries). I frankly also don't understand the objection to the inverse-property-principle, so if you could direct me there I will go oppose that one too. Thx. Jane023 (talk) 10:00, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

I think, if an inverse property is needed (I have no strong opinion on this matter), the original proposal "killed" would be are more fitting inverse of "killed by" than "murdered". After all, the other property isn't called "murdered by" and people might also be killed by an executioner in countries that apply the death penalty (such as the U.S.) or in other cases which aren't considered murder by law. Gestumblindi (talk) 21:33, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

I'd like to see wider consensus on inverse properties; they seem to me to be redundant. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:01, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

It's indeed redundant information and users adding claims need to do the work twice. However, one big issue is that the software doesn't yet allow querying. To get for example the name of the person who was killed by Johan Barger (Q742496), you need the query claim[157:742496] but that is not yet supported by the software. Nevertheless, it looks like the development team is hard working on the query engine and therefore it seems to me a waste of resources to create now an inverse property. That said, I'm   opposing this proposal. --Pasleim (talk) 12:19, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

•   Not done MSGJ (talk) 12:15, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Motivation

I don't think we have a property for this, but it's useful info. --AmaryllisGardener ^talk 21:14, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

•   Oppose Use significant event (P793); or add a start time (P580) qualifier to occupation (P106) (your example Andre Agassi (Q7407) already uses the latter). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:31, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
•   Oppose per Pigsonthewing (talk • contribs • logs). Josh Baumgartner (talk) 17:46, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Not done MSGJ (talk) 12:16, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

GZWDer (talk) 13:16, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

How does location map differ from detail map (detail map (P1621)? --Pasleim (talk) 19:18, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

• @GZWDer: Would you like to respond. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:57, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
  • For example, File:Southwark_areas.png is not useful as it includes unneeded information.--GZWDer (talk) 14:11, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

@GZWDer: Do you mean File:Southwark_areas.png is not useful for location map or detail map? --Pasleim (talk) 07:19, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

not useful for location map, location map should not include names of districts.--GZWDer (talk) 11:24, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

•   Support. Filceolaire (talk) 23:58, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
•   Support --Pasleim (talk) 22:00, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
•   Done MSGJ (talk) 21:21, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Hi,

Today there is this OSM property [2] based on "relation". It would be great to have same properties for "node" and "way":

• OpenStreetMap Node identifier, based on this url => https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/$1
• OpenStreetMap Way identifier, based on this url => https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/$1

Thank you, --Agamitsudo (talk) 11:44, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

•   Oppose OSM identifiers are not stable. Tag the node in OSM, with the Wikdiata ID (See Key:wikidata), and use coordinate location (P625) to find it. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:52, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
•   Not done MSGJ (talk) 21:47, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

It would be good if we could link to pictures and picture sequences which are available at Mapillary.com. Sometimes as proof/source/reference. Often times for illustration purposes. Even though the link points to 1 image, the user can then browse forward and backward to get an idea of what surrounds the object. Polyglot (talk) 10:05, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

I suggest to treat that as an external (authority) ID and change the type to "string". The AuthorityControl gadget can take care of the linking. Eventually, Wikibase will be able to do that natively, I hope. -- Daniel Kinzler (WMDE) (talk) 13:06, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

@Polyglot: Please provide an example which maps a Mapillary ID to a specified item in Wikidata. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:31, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Like this: https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q19368857&diff=prev&oldid=200641834 ?

"Example" rewritten based on that. Filceolaire (talk) 23:17, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

  Support change type to string and use https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/$1 as formatter url -- T.seppelt (talk) 18:01, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

  Support useful for references --Pasleim (talk) 15:04, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

As to the diff given above: reference URL (P854) should be more appropriate in references than external data available at URL (P1325).

And in a more general vein: Do we have a way to use the zillion properties with formatter URL (P1630) also within the context of references? Wouldn't we need sub-qualifiers for that? -- Gymel (talk) 16:10, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

I disagree about reference URL (P854) and external data available at URL (P1325). This is not suitable for use as a reference as it is crowdsourced info but it is useful for two way sharing of info (we can tell our readers where to find more photos and they can add infoboxes to their pages based on our info). A dedicated property is appropriate for that or, failing that, use external data available at URL (P1325).

Stuff in the "reference" section is there to describe the reference so database/authority control type properties that do that are welcome in the 'reference section unless they apply to the entire referenced work, in which case they should be in the item for that work.

Hope that helps. Having said all that I   Support this property but I think it would be better with string or database ID datatype. Filceolaire (talk) 23:17, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

•   Done MSGJ (talk) 22:07, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

This can help reduce confusion around Spanish names. --- Jura 09:03, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Would this be a matronymic or a matriname? --Yair rand (talk) 04:33, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Generally, but not necessarily. The first page you link has a section on it. For a more detailed explanation, see w:Spanish naming customs. --- Jura 06:20, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

  Support Changed to "hispanic" which is more inclusive.--Micru (talk) 22:45, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

•   Oppose: Why would we think of the first word in a surname as being more family name (P734) than a second (or third or fourth) is? One can easily use family name (P734) with qualifiers like series ordinal (P1545)"1" (and optionally instance of (P31)patrilineality (Q223375) if it is from the father's surname) for the first surname and series ordinal (P1545)"2" (and optionally instance of (P31)matrilineality (Q1136773) if it is from the mother's surname) for the second surname. --Closeapple (talk) 08:24, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
  • How can we query these? Are there any working samples for this? --- Jura 08:27, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
    • WikidataQuery CLAIM[734]{CLAIM[1545]} ought to list anything that gets one. What working samples are we looking for? --Closeapple (talk) 08:46, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
      • You'd need to identify items that have 1st, but not 2nd. Or items that have one that isn't marked as 1st or 2nd. Furthermore, you need to make sure that P734 keeps working for non Hispanic names. Many things that are actually easier with a distinct property. --- Jura 17:51, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
        • Aren't those all things that would also have to be dealt with if there is a new property? --Closeapple (talk) 04:41, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
          • It's quite straightforward with a new property for the second surname. You can easily use it to check for claims in combination with claims for people born in Spain or people of Spanish nationality. Besides, there is no confusions about the sequence of the surnames and the multiplicity. --- Jura 17:27, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Use 'Birth Name' or 'Name in native language' or 'Official name' to give the exact layout of the name and 'surname' with multiple values to list all the surnames (some people have more than 2).   Oppose. Filceolaire (talk) 22:19, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

This can't really be done with these properties. It's not a question of multiple names, but of sequence (and meaning) specific to Spanish names. --- Jura 12:05, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Jura The sequence is given in the Label or the "Birth Name". We don't need to specify this in the "family name"statement. There may be cases where you want to specify which "family name" comes from the mothers family. This is a job for a qualifier. I suggest we use named after (P138). If we have a separate property then it becomes more difficult to compile lists of people with that family name since some will use the "Family name" property and some would use this separate property. Filceolaire (talk) 13:50, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

It's not "some". This applies to a specific field. Did you read the related article? --- Jura 05:08, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

I did read the article. It says customs vary over time and between different spanish speaking countries. My proposal works for double barrelled surnames whatever their origin. It even works if a couple choose to put the maternal family name before the paternal family which is sometimes done by hispanic people living away from hispanic countries (so they have both surnames but the paternal name is last as English speaking immigration officials expect). Filceolaire (talk) 02:07, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

•   Support I have been looking for something like this to track family relationships. Also, in many Hispanic American countries, a person must have two surnames by law. Depending on the country, these are called first/second surname or paternal/maternal surname. Andreasm ^{háblame / just talk to me} 03:36, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
•   Oppose, per Closeapple. --Yair rand (talk) 03:48, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Qualifier thingies don't work well to do that. --- Jura 04:01, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Moreover, it is not as simple as a sorting order: both surnames do not have the same relevance. Both surnames appear in all personal documentation (passports, bank accounts, etc), but the second surname can be excluded in some contexts (informal conversations, presentation cards), which is not the case for the first surname. So, a person can choose to present him/herself by both surnames (Mario Vargas Llosa (Q39803), Gabriel García Márquez (Q5878)) or only by the first surname (César Vallejo (Q222744), Miguel Ángel Asturias (Q75603)), but never by the second surname. Andreasm ^{háblame / just talk to me} 04:23, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
    • Okay, so? What data would be missed by indicating a name to be a second surname as opposed to this property? --Yair rand (talk) 04:58, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
      • The lack thereof. --- Jura 05:03, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
    • Yes Andreasm, except that in some cases it is the first surname which may be omitted - this is the custom in English speaking countries where the father's surname is usually put last. Both surnames are surnames and should use the 'surname' property. To indicate which is the primary surname and which is secondary (or which is from the father and which is from the mother) is a task for a qualifier. Filceolaire (talk) 00:05, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
      • @Filceolaire: Are you still referring to Hispanic names? Because, as I mentioned, there is no legal way to skip the first surname for people born in a Hispanic country. As per other countries of residence, I can only tell for sure about the UK, where both surnames are maintained for all purposes, basically because that is how the name is registered on the passport. I could agree that this property is used only as a qualifier, but still it needs to be created as such. --Andreasm ^{háblame / just talk to me} 01:36, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
        • @Andreasmperu: My own wife is from Portugal and had three surnames. When she married me she added my surname on the end so she now has four. As she now lives in England in her general interactions only the last of these is treated like a surname with the other three treated like unusual given names. Each of my kids got one of her surnames followed by mine. Officials here in England expect the fathers surname to be at the end. People can have multiple surnames for a variety of reasons and the order can vary. Our properties needs to be flexible enough to accommodate these variations. Filceolaire (talk) 21:43, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Comment @Micru: Can we change this back to the originally proposed label for the property? It was "Spanish name". The current label seems to confuse users who want to include Iberic and British naming conventions? --- Jura 18:58, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
  • @Jura1: Not such a good idea. The label "Spanish name" refers to the template Q5623839 which divides a name in first and second surname. If the solution of using ordinal numbers is not wanted, then it would be better to use the label "second surname" for this property.--Micru (talk) 21:41, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
    • @Micru:: I tend to agree with others that outside the naming for scheme for Spanish names, the property might not be that useful. Which is why I would use it only for Spanish ones. --- Jura 11:40, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
      • @Jura1: I agree with you but in Spain it is common to refer to the second surname as "second surname", to differentiate it from the first surname for which we currently have family name (P734). If it is needed to add that it refers to spanish names, then I would be happier with a label like "second surname in Spanish name".--Micru (talk) 11:52, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
        • @Micru:. Ok for me. --- Jura 12:10, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Comment Is there any systematic issue if we create this property (other than that some of us wont be using it as they don't any related items anyways)? --- Jura 18:58, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
• @Yair rand, Closeapple, Filceolaire, Jura1, Andreasmperu: After the discussion I have changed the property name to "second surname in Spanish name", if there are no opposes I will create the property with that label in a couple of days.--Micru (talk) 20:46, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
• @Yair rand, Closeapple, Filceolaire, Jura1, Andreasmperu: Done as second family name in Spanish name (P1950).--Micru (talk) 09:18, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

  Sigh. I suspect this is going to wreck the genericness of the naming properties... --Yair rand (talk) 09:21, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

courtesy name

art name

posthumous name

temple name

• Given that these names are widely used, having these dedicated properties rather than a more generic one with qualifiers may be convenient.
• There is also childhood nickname (Q742466) and probably others, but they may not been so important.
• en.wikipedia lists era name (Q256408) in the page about Chinese names, but it is a bit different, and I do not think it is relevant here. Eras can have their own items (and they do, see Zhenguan era (Q1042896)).
• For name and surname, we have item-type properties but here the name can be whatever people want, and are used by quite many people, other by juste one person, but the list is open ended and string sounds more appropriate.
• Courtesy name was already proposed by user:GZWDer at Wikidata:Property proposal/Archive/12 but it was not done because we did not have monolginual strings at the time.
• Could be retrieved from some Wikipedia templates, and from CBDB ID (P497) if the are no rights issues.--Zolo (talk) 15:50, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Can you please give some examples to clarify this proposal?--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 11:19, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

@Giftzwerg 88: done. --Zolo (talk) 13:30, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

  Support all above proposals. —Wylve (talk) 01:41, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

  Support --- Jura 05:43, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

@Giftzwerg 88, Wylve, Jura1:: 3/4 done: . For art name, I actually do not know if art the property should be broadened to Western-style pseudonyms (I tend to think it should). --Zolo (talk) 07:39, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

I agree. We currently have pseudonym (P742), but I'm not sure if its scope is too broad. By the way, for the three properties created, should the values be in the traditional or simplified script and in which language code? —Wylve (talk) 12:42, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

I'd say traditions characters, because it better corresponds to what was used at the time, and because one simplified characters sometimes corresponds to several traditional characters.

I do not know for the language code either. Technically, I suppose it can usually be considered Classical Chinese (code: lzh), but that sounds a bit odd. Rethinking about it, maybe we should make it a simple string with no language code attached to it, but, if needed, with a qualifier for the writing system used. That would sound like a better solution for non-Chinese people. Take en:Gia Long. His temple name is apparently 世祖, but which language is that ? That is Vietnamese written in Chinese script but that can also be Chinese. --Zolo (talk) 13:45, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

I think lzh would be appropriate, since other zh-XX codes imply modern Chinese and "zh" is just an ambiguous code representing all variants of Chinese. "世祖" could also be written as "Thế Tổ" in Vietnamese, so it might be a bit weird having two values for Vietnamese if the former is considered written in Vietnamese. In my opinion no one solution stands out to be the suitable one at the moment. —Wylve (talk) 17:00, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

For Gia Long, using monolingual text, we would have:

• temple name: 世祖 language: vi or whatever stand for vietnamese with Chinese script
• temple name: Thế Tổ language: vi

The trouble is that it is not really correct as 世祖 can be Chinese as well and Thế Tổ can be used in other languages using Roman script.

I think using a "writing system" qualifier works better:

• temple name: 世祖 writing system: sinograms
• temple name: Thế Tổ writing system: Vietnamese alphabet (Q622712)

A variant of this solution would be to put the alphabetical version as a qualifier of the Chinese-character version to make it clear that this is the same name written differently, not a different name. --Zolo (talk) 21:32, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

@Wylve, Jura1, Giftzwerg 88:, can I recreate those properties with datatype = string (without language), and recommend using a writing system (P282) qualifier rather than indicate a language ? As explained above, I think it is actually better. It is also more consistent with pseudonym (P742). --Zolo (talk) 12:25, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm ambivalent about this, but I will support recreating them into string. I'm not an authority on this, but I think in the long run monolingual text and multilingual text datatypes should support a more precise ISO language scheme like ISO 639-6. The current ISO 639-1 does not include historical languages and ignores the different scripts used by the same language. —Wylve (talk) 18:33, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

@Wylve: I have changed the datatype to string, with a recommended {p|282}} qualifier. courtesy name (P1782), temple name (P1785) and posthumous name (P1786). I have also created art name (P1787), as there did not appear be really satisfying alternatives. --Zolo (talk) 08:53, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

After re-thinking through my various requests from earlier and the feedback I was given, I think all of my original questions can be answered by approving the property request religious rank and using the qualifiers of start time (P580) and conferred by (P1027). (Admins: Once religous rank is approved, the other requests can be cleared out or archived.) Sweet kate (talk) 21:28, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Discussion

Wielu duchownych, w tym Jan Paweł II nie mają odpowiedniej do ich imion, nazwisk i nazwy świeckiej deklaracji. Borys Kozielski (talk) 14:21, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

  Comment are you looking for the property equivalent to religious name (Q1417657)? If you are looking for the secular (not religious) name, that would be "lay name" in English, but I think we would use birth name (P1477) for that. PKM (talk) 00:49, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

pl:odwrotność religious name (Q1417657); eo: inverso religious name (Q1417657) en: reciprocal religious name (Q1417657) Marek Mazurkiewicz (talk) 01:11, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

  Comment Or given name (P735)? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:56, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

pl: nie; eo: ne; en: no Marek Mazurkiewicz (talk) 01:11, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

@Marek Mazurkiewicz: Why not? --Yair rand (talk) 23:35, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

  Comment or family name (P734) Oursana (talk) 23:54, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

•   Oppose. Use birth name (P1477).
  • Andy, Yair rand, Oursana Do not use family name (P734) or given name (P735) for this purpose. These properties link to items for the given name and the surname to help compile lists of people with those names. These properties can, however, be used as qualifiers to birth name (P1477). Filceolaire (talk) 13:15, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

    Why would one want a property like that? What data does it add? --Yair rand (talk) 08:16, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

•   Not done MSGJ (talk) 12:07, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Proposed by: Christian140 (talk) I made this exemplarily for McCune-Reischauer. However, more romanizations should be considered. Not only for persons, maybe general. Movies, video games, places... See also en:Template:Infobox_East_Asian_name, en:Romanization of Russian Christian140 (talk) 11:10, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

• @Christian140: Please provide an example. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:06, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Let's take the current Korean president Q138048. In her English Wikipedia article en:Park Geun-hye you can see an infobox on the left side featuring her name in Hangul (박근혜), Hanja (朴槿惠) and then Hangul romanized by the revized Romanization (Bak Geun-hye) and by McCune-Reischauer (Pak Kŭnhye). I think without these properties, a table like this wouldn't be possible anymore if the template would be generated out of Wikidata. --Christian140 (talk) 18:28, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
    • @Christian140: Thank you. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:32, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
•   Support but I think maybe this should be string datatype or, if it is monolingual datatype, then what language would 'Pak Kŭnhye' be (@Christian140, Pigsonthewing:) ?Filceolaire (talk) 07:09, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
  • @Filceolaire:. I think it should be made like Hanyu Pinyin transliteration (P1721). Actually, I only wanted to raise attention for romanizations. McCune-Reischauer is widely used in academics, but in 2000, the government of South Korea made the Q498721 their official system. For example, by McCune-Reischauer, the capital is spelled Sŏul, by the revised romanization it is spelled Seoul. But there are also other systems like Yale romanizations. However, maybe it is not relevant enough... I don't think it really has a language... or Korean? --Christian140 (talk) 16:29, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

  Support but unsure if string or monolingual text is better --Pasleim (talk) 12:37, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

•   Support string datatype. --- Jura 18:49, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
•   Comment @Christian140, Pasleim, Pisonthewing, Filceolaire:: I changed the proposal to string datatype. Pasleim are you ok with this as well? --- Jura 04:25, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
  • I'm ok with this. --Pasleim (talk) 10:58, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
    • Thanks. Then I think it's ready for creation. @‎Shinyang-i: thought it was useful for their edits. --- Jura 23:10, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Why did you change it? What language is "Pak Kŭnhye" in, if not Korean? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:12, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

박근혜 is Korean, "Pak Kŭnhye" is a sequence of characters. But I'm not sure about that. --Pasleim (talk) 22:18, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

If I say "Pak Kŭnhye" to you over the phone, what language is it in? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:37, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

It doesn't have a language. It's analogous to IPA transcription (P898) isn't it? MSGJ (talk) 12:14, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

•   Done MSGJ (talk) 21:02, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

   Not done

Description	second
Data type	Item
Template parameter	This property would be used to store the name of the second runner (or silver medalist) and then generate tables directly in the body of the Wikipedia article concerned.
Domain	sport cyclist (Q2309784)
Allowed values	Arnaud Démare (Q552724) for exemple
Example	Four Days of Dunkirk (Q513691) has part(s) (P527) => 2015 Four Days of Dunkirk (Q18589873) winner (P1346) => Ignatas Konovalovas (Q381409) second => Bryan Coquard (Q994991) third => Alo Jakin (Q4734082)
Source	fr:Quatre jours de Dunkerque#Palmarès
Robot and gadget jobs	yes

Motivation

Je prévois dans le cyclisme d'utiliser massivement les données de Wikidata pour centraliser ici le maximum de données possibles, l'objectif étant d'une part de laisser du temps aux contributeurs des petites versions linguistiques, de leur laisser la possibilité de générer des articles très rapidement, de sorte à ce qu'il ne leur reste plus qu'à rédiger, et d'autre part de centraliser au maximum la maintenance et la mise à jour. Ce chantier va être étalé tout au long de l'année 2015.
Sur les articles concernant les courses cyclistes, nous associons à chaque édition le vainqueur, le deuxième et le troisième, c'est-à-dire les coureurs qui montent sur le podium. Il existe actuellement une propriété winner (P1346), déjà utilisée dans Four Days of Dunkirk (Q513691) et Paris-Arras Tour (Q3365097), mais il nous manque une propriété pour indiquer le deuxième et une autre pour le troisième. L'objectif étant à terme de générer les tableaux présents dans chaque article de course cycliste, comme fr:Quatre jours de Dunkerque#Palmarès, depuis Wikidata. Le coureur arrivé deuxième et celui arrivé troisième sont également demandés dans les infobox d'étapes de courses cyclistes, telles que la 20e étape du Tour de France 2014. Cette demande pourrait permettre de faciliter le travail sur un grand nombre d'articles et dans de nombreuses langues.

[Google Translate] I plan in the cycling massively used to centralize data Wikidata here the maximum possible data, with the aim firstly to allow time to contributors small versions language, they leave open the possibility of generating products rapidly, so that it does not just have to write them, and also centralize maximum maintenance and update. This project will be spread throughout the year 2015.
Of the articles about cycling races, we associate with each edition the winner, the second and the third, that is to say the riders on the podium. There is currently a winner (P1346) property already used in Four Days of Dunkirk (Q513691) and Paris-Arras Tour (Q3365097), but we lack a property to indicate the second and one for third. The objective is ultimately to generate the tables present in all cycling races article, like fr:Quatre jours de Dunkerque#Palmarès, since Wikidata. The second runner arrived and the third are also requested in the infobox stages of cycling races, such as 20e étape du Tour de France 2014. This application could help facilitate the work on a large number of articles and in many languages​​. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 14:16, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

•   Support. I think you should record this with ranking (P1352) as well, as a qualifier to each cyclist, so the position of every cyclist in the race can be recorded and included in the results table. Filceolaire (talk) 23:49, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
•   Support. Filceolaire : utiliser la propriété ranking (P1352) est déjà prévu en qualificatif lorsque la propriété classement général demandée ci-dessus aura été créée. C'est même un élément clé de la réalisation des classements sur Wikidata. Dans cette demande que je mets en œuvre actuellement, les propriétés deuxième et troisième ont pour vocation d'être utilisées dans les infoboxes et dans le tableau du palmarès. Plus globalement ces deux propriétés serviront à indiquer les podiums dans toutes les compétitions. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 11:25, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

  Support A.BourgeoisP (talk) 15:47, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

  Oppose use

⟨ 2015 Four Days of Dunkirk (Q18589873)      ⟩ participant (P710)   ⟨ Bryan Coquard (Q994991)      ⟩
ranking (P1352)   ⟨  2 ⟩

--Pasleim (talk) 21:26, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

@Pasleim: You don't read the use I want : fr:Quatre jours de Dunkerque#Palmarès : I need these properties as qualifiers to list the palmarès. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 11:20, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

You can create the palmarès with participant (P710) and ranking (P1352). No need to store the information two times. / Tu peux créer le palmarès avec participant (P710) et ranking (P1352). Pas nécessaire de enregistrer les informations deux fois. --Pasleim (talk) 11:58, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

@Pasleim: Are you sure that Four Days of Dunkirk (Q513691) will permit to find the infos on 2015 Four Days of Dunkirk (Q18589873) and all of the previous editions ? Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 12:29, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes. Not now, but in a couple of weeks, see Wikidata:Arbitrary access. --Pasleim (talk) 13:17, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, I am sure now I take a good direction

•   Oppose per discussion above. Filceolaire (talk) 23:26, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
•   Oppose, per above. --Yair rand (talk) 21:40, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
•   Support See above Thib Phil (talk) 06:22, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Support --ComputerHotline (talk) 14:03, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Oppose : finalement, je n'ai pas besoin de cette propriété dans le Module:Infobox/Descriptif course cycliste, puisqu'il sera possible d'extraire de la propriété à venir classement général le premier, le deuxième et le troisième. Cette requête que j'ai initié peut donc être clôturée, et la propriété ne doit pas être créée. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 08:10, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

  Not done Opposed (=withdrawn?) by proponent. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:53, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

   Not done

Description	third
Data type	Item
Template parameter	This property would be used to store the name of the third rider (or bronze medalist ) and then generate tables directly in the body of the Wikipedia article concerned.
Domain	sport cyclist (Q2309784)
Allowed values	Arnaud Démare (Q552724) for exemple
Example	Four Days of Dunkirk (Q513691) has part(s) (P527) => 2015 Four Days of Dunkirk (Q18589873) winner (P1346) => Ignatas Konovalovas (Q381409) second => Bryan Coquard (Q994991) third => Alo Jakin (Q4734082)
Source	fr:Quatre jours de Dunkerque#Palmarès
Robot and gadget jobs	yes

Motivation

Voir ci-dessus.

[Google Translate] See above. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 14:16, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

  Support A.BourgeoisP (talk) 15:47, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

  Oppose use

⟨ 2015 Four Days of Dunkirk (Q18589873)      ⟩ participant (P710)   ⟨ Alo Jakin (Q4734082)      ⟩
ranking (P1352)   ⟨  3 ⟩

--Pasleim (talk) 21:27, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

•   Oppose as discussion above. Filceolaire (talk) 23:37, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
•   Support See above Thib Phil (talk) 06:23, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Support --ComputerHotline (talk) 14:03, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Oppose : finalement, je n'ai pas besoin de cette propriété dans le Module:Infobox/Descriptif course cycliste, puisqu'il sera possible d'extraire de la propriété à venir classement général le premier, le deuxième et le troisième. Cette requête que j'ai initié peut donc être clôturée, et la propriété ne doit pas être créée. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 08:11, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

  Not done Opposed (=withdrawn?) by proponent. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:53, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

   Not done

Description	number of arrivals
Data type	Number (not available yet)
Template parameter	This property would be used to indicate the number of runners who complete a cycling race of one day, or a step in the case of a stage race.
Domain	sport cyclist (Q2309784)
Allowed values	50, 150, 200... for exemple
Example	2015 Grand Prix de Denain (Q19249082) => 124
Source	http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=150202
Robot and gadget jobs	yes

Motivation

Voir ci-dessus.

[Google Translate] See above. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 11:59, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

  Support A.BourgeoisP (talk) 15:47, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

  Oppose. Voir ci-dessus. Le problème a été réglé, et il est désormais possible d'afficher en infobox dans la Wikipédia francophone les partants et les arrivants d'une course cycliste, comme sur fr:Paris-Roubaix espoirs 2015. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 14:07, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

•   Support --ComputerHotline (talk) 14:03, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Support although 'number of finishers' might be better for broad use of this property for all sorts of events beyond bike races. Josh Baumgartner (talk) 21:49, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

  Oppose as it seems my suggestion above is indeed working. --Pasleim (talk) 22:29, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

  Not done Opposed (=withdrawn?) by proponent.

   Not done

Description	overall leader
Data type	Item
Template parameter	This property would be used to specify the name of a rider who is leader of the general classification at the end of a stage, this is a person who is usually different from the winner (P1346), which won the meanwhile step, or running when it is a one-day race.
Domain	sport cyclist (Q2309784)
Allowed values	Arnaud Démare (Q552724) for exemple
Example	2015 Four Days of Dunkirk (Q18589873) => 2015 Four Days of Dunkirk, stage 5 (Q19891048) winner (P1346) => Edward Theuns (Q16068749) overall leader => Ignatas Konovalovas (Q381409)
Source	fr:Quatre jours de Dunkerque 2015#Étapes
Robot and gadget jobs	yes

Motivation

L'objectif est de remplir automatiquement le tableau listant les étapes, et de marquer la distinction entre un vainqueur d'étape et un leader du classement général, sachant qu'il s'agit parfois d'une seule et unique personne.

[Google Translate] The aim is to automatically populate the table listing the steps, and mark the distinction between a stage winner and overall leader, knowing that sometimes a single person. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 16:03, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

  Support A.BourgeoisP (talk) 15:47, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

  Weak oppose Because it seems redundant with the ranking at some point in time. It's harder to extract though, but it's probably just a matter of query. TomT0m ^(talk) 09:58, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

  Oppose : Finally, my idea wad bad. Like TomT0m says, it will be possible to extract directly the first runner of the overall classification. I suggest to close this property proposal. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 14:04, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

•   Support --ComputerHotline (talk) 14:03, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

  Oppose - This is a derived value, and should be calculated by the client. Each stage should have its own item, and the participants listed with their ranking and times for that stage, which will allow the client to derive who is in what position on the overall tables at the end of any particular stage. Josh Baumgartner (talk) 17:30, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

  Not done Opposed (=withdrawn?) by proponent. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:51, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

   Not done

Description	speciality
Data type	Item
Template parameter	This property would be used to indicate the speciality of a cyclist, but could be used more generally.
Domain	sport cyclist (Q2309784)
Allowed values	cycling sprinter (Q533097) / climbing specialist (Q2380088) / puncheur (Q650309) / stage race (Q1318941) / classic cycle races (Q962393) / individual time trial (Q2266066) / Cobbled classics (Q2065446) for exemple
Example	Arnaud Démare (Q552724) => cycling sprinter (Q533097), Cobbled classics (Q2065446)
Source	Articles concernant les coureurs
Robot and gadget jobs	yes

Motivation

L'intérêt est d'indiquer la ou les spécialités d'un coureur cyclistes, mais il est possible de trouver d'autres applications.

[Google Translate] The interest is to indicate the specialties of a bicycle racer, but it is possible to find other applications. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 13:11, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

•   Support unless position played on team / speciality (P413) could be used. Would that work Jérémy ? Filceolaire (talk) 23:46, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
•   Support @Filceolaire: J'avais un temps pensé à position played on team / speciality (P413), mais ici, c'est encore un peu différent : la spécialité témoigne de l'aisance d'un coureur dans un domaine particulier, mais un grimpeur par exemple fera comme d'autres des courses sur des terrains plats, il sera juste un peu meilleur que les autres sur les courses de montagne. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 22:01, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
•   Oppose use position played on team / speciality (P413), relabelled as necessary. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:10, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Pigsonthewing : are you sure ? Because what I ask is not a position played on team, it is a spéciality, like spaghettis for a cooker. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 14:01, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
    • Absolutely sure. Note what I said abut "relabelled as necessary". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:05, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
      • @Pigsonthewing: : thank you, I will adapt the brand new Cycliste that will appear on the French Wikipedia when the problem of team listing will be solve. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 15:26, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Support See above Thib Phil (talk) 06:26, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Support --ComputerHotline (talk) 14:03, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Oppose, per Pigsonthewing (talk • contribs • logs). position played on team / speciality (P413) works nicely, but an English label tweak is probably in order. Josh Baumgartner (talk) 21:52, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Oppose : finalement, je n'ai pas besoin de cette propriété dans le Module:Infobox/Descriptif course cycliste, puisqu'il sera possible d'extraire de la propriété à venir classement général le premier, le deuxième et le troisième. Cette requête que j'ai initié peut donc être clôturée, et la propriété ne doit pas être créée. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 08:13, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

  Not done Opposed (=withdrawn?) by proponent. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:54, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

GZWDer (talk) 06:10, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

•   Support --- Jura 12:29, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
• @GZWDer: I'm amazed that it doesn't seem there are any properties yet for size, extent, height, width (tried autocomplete on some item, maybe I didn't search right?), etc. So definitely some dimension properties are needed, but I think should be defined in a more general way. Eg in this case "size" or "extent" with qualifier "unit" that can be left out (in this case), or be specified as an item "entries", "records", "pages", or whatever needed. --Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 11:48, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

  Quantity with unit data type is still in development. (Happens to be one of the top priorities.) --Izno (talk) 17:16, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

•   Question Wouldn't this be better as a more generic "number of parts", to be used with a qualifier ("articles", "pages", "bricks", or whatever)? Unit measurements such as length and width would then be for other properties. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:37, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

  support for Andy's idea. --Pasleim (talk) 16:33, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

  @Pigsonthewing, Izno, Pasleim: Why not the opposite ? We already have properties for whole/part, has part(s) (P527) and part of (P361) (although it might be a good idea to split them according to the corresponding RfC) why not something like

  ⟨ Wikipedia ⟩ composed of Search ⟨ articles ⟩
  quantity (P1114)   ⟨  100000 ⟩

   ? We already have the properties. TomT0m ^(talk) 16:47, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

  @TomT0m: I see a problem with has part(s) (P527) if we want to extend it to lets say "number of users". Saying

  ⟨ Wikipedia ⟩ has part(s) (P527)   ⟨ users ⟩
  quantity (P1114)   ⟨  100000 ⟩

  looks strange to me. However, if we turn it around and say

  ⟨ Wikipedia ⟩ quantity (P1114)   ⟨  100000 ⟩
  of (P642)   ⟨ users ⟩

  it's in my opinion more natural. --Pasleim (talk) 21:17, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

  I on the other end of the line have a big problem with of (P642)   personally, because it can be used everywhere and is not really well defined, plus a big problem with a main snack number: 10000 because it's meaningless as is, and it's exported alone in some Wikidata exports. Wikipedia is made of article, on the other hand, makes much more sense. As a car is made of 4 wheels, a car is made of wheels, and a car is made of 4. I actually already used this expression in Wikidada. But for the size of the community, it deserves a more specialized property anyway. Something like contributors or contributes, as contributors builds and manages the project. But we would nether say that Shakespeare is a part of Romeo and Juliet :) TomT0m ^(talk) 06:35, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

  @Pigsonthewing: Per TomT0m, once you go that direction I think we already have the properties (I'm not sure those properties would correctly be used in that fashion however. It's lingering around my head as a potentially good idea but I'm not sure about specifics. --Izno (talk) 15:45, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

• Tentative support. Still musing on Pigs's suggestion. --Izno (talk) 15:45, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
•   Support. Filceolaire (talk) 23:21, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
•   Oppose while nobody has a good argument against the
  ⟨ Wikipedia ⟩ composed of Search ⟨ articles ⟩
  quantity (P1114)   ⟨  100000 ⟩
  solution. TomT0m ^(talk) 10:34, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

  To give an example, and generalisation, I used this into the integer couple (Q19841009)      to express that an ordered pair of integers is made of two integers. This is a generic solution I did not really found a problem with. TomT0m ^(talk) 10:37, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

•   Oppose - has part(s) (P527) with the quantity (P1114) qualifier is a cleaner solution. It also is easy to cover a work that has multiple types of parts (321 entries, 12 appendices, 3 indices, 42 tables, etc.) Josh Baumgartner (talk) 18:55, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

  Not done @GZWDer, Vladimir Alexiev, Izno, Pigsonthewing, TomT0m, Joshbaumgartner: Use the alternative methods proposed.--Micru (talk) 14:08, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

  Notified participants of WikiProject Names

•   Comment This is to replace P:P364 on items for given names. P364 used to have the label "language", but is now labelled "language of the original work", so it can't be used anymore and we need to find a replacement. The more general proposal above (#language.2C_except_for_works_or_persons) didn't seem to fly. --- Jura 11:36, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
•   Support per proposal. --- Jura 11:36, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
•   Question @Jura1: What's wrong with the generic "language" properties in this case ? Does not seem right to create one property for name, one other for whatever else, etc. A gender statement or/and make a statement like
  ⟨ Jean (Q4160311)      ⟩ instance of (P31)   ⟨ female given name (Q11879590)      ⟩
  seems useful, however
  TomT0m ^(talk) 16:39, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
  • I don't know. It's just that I need some sort of a property for these items. Given the new (English) label of P:P364, I can't use that anymore. --- Jura 18:10, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
  • BTW, I improved the presentation of the example above. --- Jura 17:43, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
•   Question What about native label (P1705). It can be used in any supported language instead of label, and consists both the source language and original writing form. That method is best if infobox want to show the name in original form in Wikipedia article. However, there is problem for spoken only languages, but do we need it? If yes I would prefer generic property that point for the source language of any name, no only the given one, for etymological purposes. Paweł Ziemian (talk) 14:49, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
•   Oppose. A property that is only used for given names is way too narrow. We do need a language but this isn't it. Filceolaire (talk) 17:58, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
•   Oppose I also think this is too narrow. Better a more general property "source language of this label".--Micru (talk) 09:21, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

  Not done @Jura1, TomT0m, Paweł Ziemian, Filceolaire: Too narrow, resubmit with a broader scope. --Micru (talk) 13:59, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Motivation

Could help us for documentation, conceptual clarity and maintenance. The most obvious use I see would be the creation of new kinds of "constraint violation" reports. The current system is organized by property, like Wikidata:Database reports/Constraint violations/P31. It is really useful for some purposes, but leaves holes and would usefully be supplemented by a system based on the item instance of (P31) statements. For instance, if human (Q5) (or a superclass of it) has a "properties for this type: sex or gender (P21)" statement, a constraint violation report would warn us about items that are instance of humans but do not have a P21. It is not easy to do this sort of things using a property-based method like Wikidata:Database reports/Constraint violations/P21.

@TomT0m, emw: for class issues, @Ivan A. Krestinin: for constraint reports. Zolo (talk) 18:16, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

  Question Will optional properties be linked using this property? For example human (Q5) => date of death (P570). — Ivan A. Krestinin (talk) 19:53, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

I don't really know, but I think it should start with the most straight-forward non-optional properties. For optional properties, maybe we should have a second property, or maybe it should use qualifiers to have more flexibility. --Zolo (talk) 06:21, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

  Comment seems to be similar to this proposal --Pasleim (talk) 19:58, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

@Pasleim: actually I am not sure to get how Wikidata:Property_proposal/Property_metadata#property is meant to work but afaik it is supposed to be used in properties, while this proposal is for a property to be used in items. --Zolo (talk) 06:21, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes that proposal focuses on constraints on properties but there isn't a big difference between the constraint date of birth (P569) => sex or gender (P21) and human (Q5) => sex or gender (P21) so using the same property could simplify it. --Pasleim (talk) 16:00, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

  Comment From the OWL point of view, this is (as the preceding proposal) a part of a class expression definition, more precisely an existential quantification. A class can be defined such that its instances have this property with some value. TomT0m ^(talk) 19:47, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

•   Support with an alias to the OWL formulation. TomT0m ^(talk) 19:47, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
•   Support Josh Baumgartner (talk) 17:32, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Question @Zolo, TomT0m:Could this property also be used with items representing templates or infoboxes? --Micru (talk) 08:31, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

  @Micru: Imho it would be a better pattern to map infoboxes with types. Then the properties for the infobox would be the same than the property for the class, so less redundancy. TomT0m ^(talk) 10:36, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

  @TomT0m: I think I understand what you mean, but just to be sure that it is more clear, could you please provide an example?--Micru (talk) 09:15, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

  Micru   Done

    Comment Create a new render instances property, with infobox templates as domain, and with classes (or metaclasses) as range. For example,

  ⟨ Template:Infobox scientist (Q5624818)      ⟩ renders instances Search ⟨ Q901 ⟩

  . TomT0m ^(talk) 10:54, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

  @TomT0m: Currently there is template has topic (P1423), is that not enough? It seems to be a bit redundant to have two properties for a similar purpose.--Micru (talk) 13:36, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

  @Micru:, yep, I guess we should rename this property as it's way more precise as the current label to say that the template can be applied to the instances of the object of this property than to say it's the main topic or whatever. Do you have your answer ? It seems enough to check the properties from that item, and less redundant. TomT0m ^(talk) 14:20, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

  @TomT0m: There is no need to change the label, you can write it in the description field if needed. The reason for leaving as it is, it is because of consistency with the other "main" properties.--Micru (talk) 18:25, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

@TomT0m, Ivan A. Krestinin, Zolo, Josh Baumgartner: Done.--Micru (talk) 13:56, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Motivation

The patron of an artist. Maybe that could be extended to people/companies subsidizing events, schools, etc. ? Zolo (talk) 19:38, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

we have donated by (P1028) to use perhaps more general--Oursana (talk) 20:21, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

I don't think this can really be used. "Donated by" means something like "benevolently transferred the property to" while "patron" means something like "subsidizes". The pope did not donate Michelangelo to anyone~:). --Zolo (talk) 07:10, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

•   Support--Micru (talk) 08:32, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Comment I have used employer (P108) a few times in this case, e.g. Peter Paul Rubens (Q5599) employer (P108) Marie de' Medici (Q182021). I don't mind turning this into a specific, new property though, it would probably make searching for artist-patron relationships easier. Spinster (talk) 19:16, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Support - Patron is a unique relationship, different from employment, ownership, or commissioning of a work, so it warrants its own property. Josh Baumgartner (talk) 16:16, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Oppose: Please give a clear and reliable defintion. --Succu (talk) 20:32, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
• strong   Support Oursana (talk) 01:25, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Support propriété intéressante à avoir dans le domaine de l'art. Jérémy-Günther-Heinz Jähnick (talk) 14:26, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Support. Filceolaire (talk) 18:06, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

@Zolo, Oursana, Spinster, Joshbaumgartner, Succu, Filceolaire: Done.--Micru (talk) 13:49, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

GZWDer (talk) 13:16, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

• If there're a universal Lua function to calculate it automatically, these two requests is not needed.--GZWDer (talk) 13:20, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
  • It's just a formula of (conic?) projection, which has substituted the coordinate values. It certainly can be calculated automatically. —putnik 18:18, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

  Not done - can be calculated. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:51, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

GZWDer (talk) 13:16, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

  Not done - can be calculated. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:52, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

The street is the lowest level of spatial attribution/allocation/relation. For localities and municipalities various identifiers already exist, but not for streets and squares. The street key should be referenced qualified by a new item for the specific street cadastra.Leit (talk) 17:15, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

  Comment I understand this as a kind of "generic" property: The number (or better string?) always has to be qualified by the something where the number stems from. This might be an administrative body (community or a certain administrative branch changing its name every now and then?) or an official list (instance of an official publication - but what to do when it's not published) maintained by such a body - I'm not sure which point of view works better for our purpose. -- Gymel (talk) 18:56, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

I guess a property "street key" would be equivalent to (subclass of (P279)?) or a more specific form of catalog code (P528) – thus a qualifier equivalent to catalog (P972) is needed. I'd like to add that one might even consider the possibility simply to state that a certain street or square is part of the official "street cadastre" at all even when the street key is unknown or doesn't exist. Thereby one could seperate or sort out those streets and especially squares which do not have an official but only an informal name – for example a certain building can be located at the Bahnhofsvorplatz (square in front of a train station) but this is not an official adress as the square is composed of parts of other streets. If that solution was to be applied "street key" would not make sense as a property but as a qualifier to (maybe?) part of (P361) => (experimentally new item:) street cadastre of Bonn (Q15701662). I'm still looking for a suitable umbrella form for "streets and squares that can officially be adressed".--Leit (talk) 00:24, 2 February 2014 (UTC) There's another example of how it can be useful to sort out "address streets" from other ones: A building can at the same time be located at Kreisstraße XY (no address street) and at Hauptstraße (address street). Also, the address street is not necessarily completely part of the non-address street – as an example it does often occur in Germany that a Hauptstraße (main street) within the downton area is part of such a street (Federal street, Landesstraße etc.) only up until the pedestrian zone.--Leit (talk) 13:35, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

•   Support but should always have a 'catalog' qualifier to indicate which registry the code comes from. Filceolaire (talk) 00:06, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
•   Support if it is used as generic property with qualifier catalog (P972) to indicate which registry is used. --Pasleim (talk) 21:54, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
•   Done MSGJ (talk) 22:11, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Motivation

Reputable Lund University service, also served as linked data ( http://dare.ht.lu.se/places/20700.rdf / http://dare.ht.lu.se/places/20700.ttl ). That database already includes Wikidata IDs (6,859 at time of writing); a list of equivalences will be requested, or perhaps may be fetchable programmatically. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:21, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

  Done, Digital Atlas of the Roman Empire ID (P1936) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:44, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

GZWDer (talk) 13:16, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

•   Support --Чаховіч Уладзіслаў (talk) 13:15, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
•   Support. Filceolaire (talk) 00:02, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
•   Support --Pasleim (talk) 22:04, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
•   Done MSGJ (talk) 21:54, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Motivation

The CTHS is a French learned society created in 1834 which contains a lot of informations about artists. Note there's also a different URL which is used to request information on an organization (ex : leads to nothing but leads to ROGNIAT Louis.

This time, I care about this proposal, since I use it very often. JeanBono (talk) 19:32, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

•   Support Looks useful MSGJ (talk) 21:11, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Support --Micru (talk) 09:19, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Support. Filceolaire (talk) 18:21, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Motivation

Widely used. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 08:48, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

•   Support. Filceolaire (talk) 18:28, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Support --Micru (talk) 22:11, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

@Filceolaire, Micru:   Done Google Scholar author ID (P1960) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:25, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

•   Support to enable infobox conversion. --- Jura 17:43, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
• Remarkably, 100 is an inadequate maximum; see en:List of people with the most children#Males. Also, please provide a valid example. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:53, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
  • LOL interesting list: I changed the range ;) For samples, please see this list. Have your pick at a balanced, politically neutral, set of samples. --- Jura 21:55, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
    Just found it in another infobox as well => done. --- Jura 22:14, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Support--Micru (talk) 22:12, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
• Why not just use child (P40) "unknown" however many times? --Yair rand (talk) 22:49, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
  • There's several problems I can see with that idea: There's no way to specify a precision, e.g. see the page Andy linked to, the top entry is "1000-2000". Even if you decide on an exact number to add, nobody is going to want to add the same thing tens or hundreds of times (and it would make the page really slow to load if you did). It's really hard to tell just how many times you've used a property the more times you use it. Then there's a risk that people will think that they're duplicate statements and remove them. - Nikki (talk) 00:44, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
    • I like the idea to some extent: the list is rather an exception, but I'm also worried about people removing them as duplicates. Counting them isn't necessarily easy either.
      When creating new properties, there is always a compromise to make between the theoretically ideal way and the practicalities of adding and maintaining and retrieving statements. Unfortunately we tend to get lots of input of the first type and rarely of the second. --- Jura 16:36, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

@Jura, Micru, Nikki, Yair rand: Done. --Tobias1984 (talk) 19:03, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Motivation

Provides cross-referencing across some public music data sets and songwriter lists. It is the only internationally used identifier across all systems for Songwriters and Publishers. It is similar to ISRC for music recordings, but instead it is used to identify the creators (songwriters) themselves. Thadguidry (talk) 16:22, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

  Support An important cross-system identifier used in the music and media industries. Thadguidry (talk) 16:22, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

This already exists as IPI name number (P1828). - Nikki (talk) 17:58, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

not done, duplicate of IPI name number (P1828) --Pasleim (talk) 13:36, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Awesome, I'll use IPI name number (P1828) - Thadguidry (talk) 13:05, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

For firms that have received venture capital and the like. Antrocent (talk) 08:12, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Can we change the name to "investors" and expand it's use to public investors too? We probably need a qualifier property as well, to specify the percentage of the organization owned by each investor. Filceolaire (talk) 16:49, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Agreed, an 'investor' property to which we can add all notable investors would be useful. Qualifiers can come in time as appropriate datatypes are rolled out. Josh Baumgartner (talk) 21:45, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

  Done @Antrocent, Filceolaire: Josh Baumgartner (talk) 16:34, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Motivation: We need this property to express the election period and other periods Oursana (talk) 01:23, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

copied from
https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/29&diff=next&oldid=201918431 which was archived by mistake

• Do we need a way to clarify cases like the U.S. House of Representatives in the U.S., where there are elections every 2 years, but the term of office is 6 years, because only 1/3 of seats are up for re-election each time? Or en:Cambridge City Council where "Elections for a third of the seats take place 3 out of every 4 years" ? -- Jheald (talk) 16:22, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
  • strong yes, but first we have to install the general property for hundreds or thousands of parliaments in the world and their different election periods, because also in your example we need this property, and then use qualifier with applies to part, aspect, or form (P518) 1/3 or 33 %--Oursana (talk) 22:03, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
•   Support the only question I have is the basic time unit - aren't there any elections happening every n months? Apohllo (talk) 23:27, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
  • yes, there are elections every "n" years therefore my property proposal "election period in years" to tell us. Thanks for your support--Oursana (talk) 15:59, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
•   Weak support but I would use number datatype --Pasleim (talk) 21:45, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
  •   Done thx --Oursana (talk) 01:55, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
•   Weak oppose I think this should wait the quantity datatype, as other stuffs (we already had a BPM property proposed to deletion). TomT0m ^(talk) 10:57, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Oppose to the current proposition: should be "period" with numeric datatype with unit. Snipre (talk) 17:18, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

  Not done Wrong datatype. Wait till "number with units".--Micru (talk) 14:37, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Motivation

Codelist mantained by an UN agency for economic and transportation business activity. It's related to the IATA code in case of a city with an airport. It's a standard in trade, for example in the logistic sector. UNECE releases two editions per year and mantaining it Wikidata could be useful for complex queries or data enrichment.

The code is made by two parts: first two letters come from ISO Alpha 2 code, the others identify the location. A "formal" description is in this datapackage I contributed The extracted latest data is in code-list csv

--Sabas88 (talk) 10:39, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

•   Support This is useful and clear. Josh Baumgartner (talk) 22:19, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Support. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 14:22, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

@Sabas88, Joshbaumgartner, Thryduulf:   Done UN/LOCODE (P1937). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:08, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Motivation

Along the lines of wing configuration (P1654) and undercarriage (P1637) this is a basic characteristic of aircraft that should be reflected with its own property. Josh Baumgartner (talk) 22:18, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

•   Support Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 14:22, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Comment: is it possible to already have a list of the type of takeoff and landing which can be used as value for this property ? The constraints should be described in the proposal when possible in order to foreseen some limitations. Snipre (talk) 14:30, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
  • @Snipre: Good point, I added the allowed values parameter to show this. Josh Baumgartner (talk) 22:15, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
•   Weak support Seem usefull, and I see no drawback yet. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 19:41, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

@Joshbaumgartner, Thryduulf, Snipre, Visite fortuitement prolongée:   Done takeoff and landing capability (P1956) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:42, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Motivation

Certain statements have multiple sources, some of which may not actually be sources for all elements of the statement. For example, a statement might have a start date listed, but one of the sources is only about the main statement, and does not include anything about the start date. Such a source could have "source excludes qualifier: start time (P580)". --Yair rand (talk) 02:29, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

• Can't you solve that with the use of several statements using the same properties ? Snipre (talk) 08:51, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

  That would make two statements … I'm not sure that's what we want unless there is a contradiction beetween the sources.

  Question @Yair rand: I'm not a big fan of the idea … Why not use applies to part, aspect, or form (P518)   for the statement who owns the date ? Seems simpler overall. TomT0m ^(talk) 14:19, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

• No response, marking as   Not done MSGJ (talk) 22:10, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Motivation

BerlPap is short for Berliner Papyrusdatenbank ('Berlin Papyri Database', though the translation is not officially used), a project by the Egyptian Museum and Papyrus Collection in Berlin. They have descriptions and scans of huge parts of their papyri, ostraca, and parchment collection. Many of these documents are important enough to deserve their own Wikipedia article (see example above). It would be a good idea to link the numbers from the database with a specific Property as a reference. Jonathan Groß (talk) 13:39, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

•   Support but the datatype should be 'string' since (subtracting one number from another has no meaning so they are identifiers not quantities). Filceolaire (talk) 08:10, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

  Alright, changed it accordingly. Jonathan Groß (talk) 17:43, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

•   Done MSGJ (talk) 22:24, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

Motivation The web site corpusdelaparole publish some dozens pages about languages. Include several audio records. This property could be usefull. Or not. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 15:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Proposé par: Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk)

You're not really sounding convincing. Do you intend to use this property in a project? --Pasleim (talk) 19:21, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

No. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 19:36, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

  Not done, there is no point in having a property if nobody is going to do something with it. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 07:29, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

(Add your motivation for this property here.) GZWDer (talk) 15:38, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Could you give more detail? I looked at this site, http://www.slu.se/sv/centrumbildningar-och-projekt/artdatabanken/, but a quick look leaves me mystified. A look at https://www.dyntaxa.se/taxon/info/2000976 shows only a barebones skeleton. - Brya (talk) 17:40, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

GZWDer: Any remarks? --Succu (talk) 22:07, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

See sv:Mall:Dyntaxa, but it is used in few pages.--GZWDer (talk) 01:05, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

I am dubious as 1) this does not appear to have original information, but is just a gathering of material from elsewhere and 2) this is a local database (this is also the case for the two proposals below), so this would start a trend to have a database for every country (and there are many countries). - Brya (talk) 05:00, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

•   Support I am still less than enthusiastic, but it is better than GBIF and the like, so it would not hurt. - Brya (talk) 05:23, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
• OK, let's do it. Dyntaxa is used by GBIF, WoRMS has links. I'm prepared to add these IDs.   Support --Succu (talk) 09:51, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
• @GZWDer: Please provdie an English-language descritpion. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:15, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

  I used google translate. MSGJ (talk) 14:43, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

•   Done MSGJ (talk) 20:05, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

-- Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:24, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Why restrict to holotype (Q1061403)? --Succu (talk) 16:45, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes, that is a good question: the normal thing would be "type" (nomenclatural type). BTW: why in French? Why disregard databases? Perhaps we should do "type locality" first, as there are quite a few Wikipedia pages already reporting that. - Brya (talk) 17:28, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

"French"? "disregard databases"? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:01, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Well, "taxons" is French for "taxa". And I imagine there are more sources for this information, in particular databases. And I don't see a reason for separate properties, or qualifiers, for the several kinds of types. There (usually) is only one type, and it is in only one place, and to that location it is irrelevant what the nature of the type is. It would make more sense to have a property "nomenclatural type" referring to a type specimen (or illustration) and attach a qualifier to that, to indicate the nature of the type.

        But location of the type is pretty far down the list of properties I would want. I would rather have a property indicating the gender of a generic name, or indicating if a specific name/epithet is a noun or adjective. Type locality looks more desirable as well. Or, if there is interest in types, a direct link to a picture of the type (there are tens of thousands of these available). - Brya (talk) 05:40, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

You are of course welcome to propose any additional properties you see fit; we're hardly likely to run out of space for them. The term "Taxons" is in the pro-forma proposal template; I'm not aware that the source parameter is required to be exhaustive. I wonder how you would distinguish paratype (Q926578), syntype (Q719822), and allotypes, from holotypes? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:39, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Paratypes, syntypes and allotypes are not really an issue: they are not types, but terms having "type" in the term indicating them (there are a lot such terms). Actually, syntypes are odd, they are not types under the ICNafp, but they are (more or less) under the ICZN. However, the moment a serious taxonomist looks at them they stop being types. - Brya (talk) 17:25, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm not averse to having a single "type specimen" (or whatever it might be called) property, if that's what "serous taxonomists" advise. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:09, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

We could have another property for other type(s) or have one and add a qualifier, I suppose. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:01, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

  Neutral: I suppose it would not hurt to have this, but I don't see it has any priority. If we would have links to type specimens, this would become mostly superfluous. - Brya (talk) 06:00, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

type is held by is superfluous. We can model this allready:

1. Create a new item, name it DONMG:1983.98,
2. add collection (P195) = Danum Gallery, Library and Museum (Q5295507),
3. add instance of (P31) = list of taxonomic terms that include "type" (Q3546082),
4. add taxonomic type (P427) = DONMG:1983.98 to the taxon item.

What we need is a property for the type status. And we need a clear understandung how to model a Specimen or Taxon Occurrence. The new created item DONMG:1983.98 could have a bunch of other usefull information eg:

• catalog number
• collector
• collecting date
• geolocation
• type for taxonname
• sex
• ...

-- Succu (talk) 12:26, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

I assume the taxonomic type (P427) = DONMG:1983.98 and perhaps the collection (P195) = Danum Gallery, Library and Museum (Q5295507) (a qualifier?) would be added to the taxon item.

        Well yes, I suppose this is possible. It would also be possible to give every specimen ever collected its own item. Given that we have some 1.9 million taxon names we could have some 1.8 million items for type specimens/illustrations. However, it looks like an immense amount of effort for only a small gain in the amount of information. Who would really want to know this? There has been only a small start in eliminating completely fictitious taxa, so data quality is far from guaranteed in what data now is present. And I imagine there are other properties to add that would be more interesting to the user of data. - Brya (talk) 17:31, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

We have a little bit more than 500 usages of taxonomic type (P427). I do not expect a great incease using type speciemens in the near future. But we have c:Category:Type specimens too. So if someone is interested s/he could work on these. If Andy Mabbett agrees I would remodel this proposal into one for type status. --Succu (talk) 18:34, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

BTW: Europeana (Q234110) has more than 75,000 images of type specimens. We can link to them via P727 (P727). --Succu (talk) 18:56, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Five hundred usages of taxonomic type (P427) is indeed very little, especially given how commonly this is included on Wikipedia's. What do you mean by "type status"? The link to Europeana (Q234110) does not lead to type specimens (there are four specimens of Schotia africana on the first page). Typing in "holotype" gives 16 results. - Brya (talk) 19:39, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

type status - or however we name that property - should provide the „type of the type” eg holotype (Q1061403), lectotype (Q2439719)... --Succu (talk) 21:06, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Oh yes, that. As pointed out above we will indeed need that, as a qualifier, once we have some kind of property/structure to handle type specimens. Something like "nature of type" ("kind of type"?) looks better to me; they have the status of "name-bearing type" or "nomenclature type". - Brya (talk) 05:55, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

I gave it a second thought and came to the conclusion that we don't need a new property. Have a look at the value of taxonomic type (P427) in Ichthyosaurus anningae (Q19346236), Acanthocalycium ferrarii (Q337692) (holotypes) and Cereus hexagonus (Q1055079) (an illustration as lectotype). instance of (P31) should do the job. --Succu (talk) 15:03, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

That would work, in principle. It will then be convenient to have an "is the type of" property. -Brya (talk) 18:40, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Yep. That's the one we need. --Succu (talk) 18:43, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

However, misuse seems likely. It would be appropriate for a type specimen to have "is the type of" and for an animal it would be appropriate for a type species to have "is the type of", but for a plant species it would not be appropriate to have "is the type of". - Brya (talk) 18:58, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Sry, but I do not catch your point. A type specimen acting as a nomenclature type should be linked to the taxon item. Otherwise it might be got lost. --Succu (talk) 19:45, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

There is a big difference between the ICZN and the ICNafp: Under the ICZN the type of a family is a type genus, under the ICNafp the type of a family is a specimen (or illustration), and it may be indicated by referring to a type genus (the "type genus" is only an indication, not a type). Thus, there is an asymmetrical relationship (even under the ICZN there is a degree of asymmetry: a single type genus can be the type for a tribe, a subfamily, a family, a superfamily, etc) . - Brya (talk) 06:54, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

We found a better solution (see above discussion):   Oppose --Succu (talk) 15:28, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

•   Oppose per Succu Filceolaire (talk) 08:41, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
• Marking   Not done MSGJ (talk) 15:04, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

useful website, not top quality (and with incomplete coverage), but still with a lot of useful information. - Brya (talk) 11:12, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

• Not very complete, but why not.   Support --Succu (talk) 15:11, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
• I think we should perhaps be string stings like "Austrotaxus", not "ta/Austrotaxus". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:21, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Maybe such strings would be better, but this is a suggestion that should be made to the owner of the conifers.org website. He is not using them now, and without them we cannot make a link. - Brya (talk) 11:06, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

•   Done MSGJ (talk) 20:32, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

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