Property talk:P1559
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name in native language
name of a person in their native language
name of a person in their native language
[create Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here]
Type “human (Q5), fictional character (Q95074), human whose existence is disputed (Q21070568), abstract being (Q15619164), character that may or may not be fictional (Q21070598), mythical creature (Q2239243), fictional human formerly considered to be historical (Q64520857), prosopographical phantom (Q64643615), hypothetical person (Q75855169), individual animal (Q26401003)”: item must contain property “instance of (P31)” with classes “human (Q5), fictional character (Q95074), human whose existence is disputed (Q21070568), abstract being (Q15619164), character that may or may not be fictional (Q21070598), mythical creature (Q2239243), fictional human formerly considered to be historical (Q64520857), prosopographical phantom (Q64643615), hypothetical person (Q75855169), individual animal (Q26401003)” or their subclasses (defined using subclass of (P279)). (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1559#Type Q5, Q95074, Q21070568, Q15619164, Q21070598, Q2239243, Q64520857, Q64643615, Q75855169, Q26401003, SPARQL
Qualifiers “transliteration or transcription (P2440), revised Hepburn romanization (P2125), Hanyu Pinyin transliteration (P1721), McCune-Reischauer romanization (P1942), name in kana (P1814), IPA transcription (P898), ISO 9:1995 (P2183), Hungarian-style transcription (P2719), Wylie transliteration (P4187), Revised Romanization (P2001), has characteristic (P1552), start time (P580), end time (P582), point in time (P585), sourcing circumstances (P1480), writing system (P282), Möllendorff transliteration (P5139), alternative name (P4970), THL Simplified Phonetic Transcription (P4189), object of statement has role (P3831), pronunciation audio (P443), reason for deprecated rank (P2241), has cause (P828), generational suffix (P8017), end cause (P1534), reason for preferred rank (P7452), Slavistic Phonetic Alphabet transcription (P5276), named after (P138), earliest date (P1319), earliest end date (P8554), latest start date (P8555), latest date (P1326), named by (P3938), language of work or name (P407), Tibetan pinyin (P4188), ALA-LC romanization (P8991), Jyutping transliteration (P9311), applies to work (P10663), Royal Thai General System of Transcription (P10694), object stated in reference as (P5997), vocalized name (P4239), Ukrainian national romanization (P9373), Yale romanization (P9313), Institute of Language in Education Scheme (P9317), ALA-LC romanization for Ukrainian (P9453), romanization of Belarusian (2007 system) (P5412)”: this property should be used only with the listed qualifiers. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1559#allowed qualifiers, SPARQL
Scope is as main value (Q54828448), as qualifier (Q54828449): the property must be used by specified way only (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1559#Scope, SPARQL
Allowed entity types are Wikibase item (Q29934200): the property may only be used on a certain entity type (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1559#Entity types
Check on multiple values
Items with more than 3 values might not be using this property correctly (Help)
Violations query:
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P1559#Check on multiple values
Items with more than 3 values might not be using this property correctly (Help)
Violations query:
SELECT ?item (COUNT(?nativeLabel) as ?count) (GROUP_CONCAT(DISTINCT(lang(?nativeLabel)); separator=" ") as ?langs) (GROUP_CONCAT(DISTINCT(str(?nativeLabel)); separator=";") as ?values) WHERE { ?item wdt:P1559 ?nativeLabel } GROUP BY ?item HAVING(?count > 3) ORDER BY DESC(?count) LIMIT 1000List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P1559#Check on multiple values
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Pattern ^(.*) (.*)$ will be automatically replaced to \1 \2. Testing: TODO list |
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This property is being used by:
Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.) |
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Discussion
[edit]What is the difference between English and English?
[edit]The given example is quite strange:
- Barack Obama (Q76), P1559 → (en) "Barack Hussein Obama II"
So in his native language Barack Obama is called "Barack Hussein Obama II", but in English it's "Barack Obama"? And then there is birth name (P1477): "Barack Hussein Obama II (English)". --Kolja21 (talk) 11:23, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
- @Kolja21: I think it should be birth name (P1477): "Barack Obama (English)" (today's most known name, like English label) and birth name (P1477): "Barack Hussein Obama II (English)" (official name or something like this for the moment of born). --putnik 13:03, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
- With moving the example to the property page, this has been solved. Mbch331 (talk) 20:52, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
I have added a more useful example for western users: Shinzō Abe (Q132345) has name in native language (P1559): 安倍 晋三 in his native language Japanese (Q5287). This in particular is a nice property when different alphabets are used to display names. —MisterSynergy (talk) 06:43, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
Name vs surname
[edit]Should the string includes all parts of full name (middle name, patronymics, surname) or just a name? --Infovarius (talk) 21:09, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
- @Infovarius: It should include notable parts of full name. For most cases it's like label on person's native language. For Russian Wikipedia it's the same of "оригинал_имени" ("original name") parameter in infobox. --putnik 13:33, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
- Hmm, too vague. We should have a monolingual property for "personal name in original language" only. --Infovarius (talk) 18:25, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
Cannot add a Lakota name
[edit]For Spotted Tail (Q267752), I'm trying to add name in native language (P1559) = "Siŋté Glešká" in the Lakota language. Lakota is at Lakota (Q33537); it has an ISO 639-3 code of 'lkt'. Yet the system won't accept that language. The error message calls it an illegal value. I've tried using the name, Q value, and ISO code. We should allow any ISO 639-3 code (P220) language. Runner1928 (talk) 03:02, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
- Best is to request addition of the language on Phabricator or on Contact the developers. That's the short term solution. They are working on a long time solution, but don't know how long that will take. Mbch331 (talk) 20:52, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
What is the difference between this property and P1477?
[edit]What is the difference between this property and birth name (P1477)?Juan Mayordomo (talk) 19:29, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
- name in native language (P1559) can be useful to a Wikipedia where the language used by the property has a different script (ruwiki uses for languages other than ru). P1477 is for cases where the current name of a person is different from their (full) name at birth. Both would generally be in the same language.
--- Jura 06:21, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
Acute accents to indicate stress
[edit]In some languages stress of words, particularly names, is irregular and thus occasionally indicated by acute accents. Do we consider these acute accents as part of the original name and store them within this property, or would it be better to omit them? At the moment I deal with cyrillic names in Russian language in particular where this is an issue, but the question is basically valid for all languages where optional acute accents are used to indicate stess. Just to make sure: regular diacritics are somewhat different and not part of my question here.
- I think that the question holds its own answer. As far as the accent is optional, it should not be used in normal writing. Maybe a specific property, or qualifier ? --Hsarrazin (talk) 12:58, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
- There is IPA transcription (P898) that can be used as qualifier.
--- Jura 13:22, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
Okay thanks, I will do so in future. Since I’m not able to use IPA and IPA transcription (P898), there will unfortunately not be any information about name spelling in the affected items in near future. Regards, MisterSynergy (talk) 05:54, 8 July 2016 (UTC)
Merge?
[edit]Could this be merged with native label (P1705)? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 23:37, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
- No, native label (P1705) is for places. --Thibaut120094 (talk) 13:33, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
- @Thibaut120094: So there's no overlap between coverage of these properties? P1705 looks more general to me, so could cover the same uses as this property is currently used for... I've asked for more feedback about this at Wikidata:Project_chat#Native_names. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 23:47, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
@Mike Peel: no, names of persons (name in native language (P1559)) are quite different from other names e.g. P1705 and should be kept in separate property. Nicknames are different from P1559 too. d1g (talk) 09:35, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
Qualifier for name format
[edit]Please see Wikidata_talk:WikiProject_Names#Qualifier_for_name_format.
--- Jura 13:40, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
Other names for other things
[edit]I don't know the restriction to people's names. Many objects, cities, toponyms habe such a kind of name. for example: Canal Dortmund-Ems i Dortmund-Ems-Knanal. Or many villages in the north of Germany, that have an original name in Low German. It is very interesting the way they appeared in the right template, before the restrictions was decreed.--Flamenc (talk) 14:07, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
- There seems to be native label (P1705) for that purpose. I actually came here looking for a "name in original language" for events but these discussions convinced me that we shouldn't have such a property. Deryck Chan (talk) 15:52, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
add support for THL as transliteration for Tibetan in property P1559
[edit]The THL Simplified Phonetic Transcription (P4189) should be accepted for property name in native language (P1559) with at least Tibetan language (bo). There is currently a warning.Popolon (talk) 14:12, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
- The alert is still here. Popolon (talk) 14:06, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
Language vs script
[edit]I noticed that Liu Cixin (Q607588) has two name in native language (P1559) statements, for simplified / traditional Chinese. But his name can also be written "Liu Cixin". Names aren't in any particular language, are they? We've got the same name written with 3 different scripts. There are probably multiple ways of writing his name in Latin script. Shouldn't this property be labelled "name in native script"? The native script in this case would presumably be simplified Chinese. Ghouston (talk) 04:54, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
- I suppose the property presumes both language and script. P.S. "Names aren't in any particular language" - ha-ha, try to say it to Wikidata:WikiProject Names. --Infovarius (talk) 19:49, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
Restriction to native
[edit]I found no better property and used it for Russian and German [1]. This is also related to Ghouston's section "Language vs script". What does "native" entail? Why would it be relevant to store the name in "native language" but not in others? The label only allows one form and no sources or qualifiers. MrProperLawAndOrder (talk) 14:22, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
- There is also birth name (P1477) if it helps. I suppose native languages is the most important language for a person, so it is the name by which this person refers themself. Sometimes it is hard to determing native language so I agree with your example, I add >1 values sometimes myself. --Infovarius (talk) 19:42, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
Why can't a musical duo have a name in its native language?
[edit]Take a look at Q11865600: it's a (former) musical duo, called Jaana and Tiina in English and Jaana ja Tiina in Finnish (nicknamed Tiitiäiset). It was composed of two sisters, Jaana Tynell and Tiina Tynell, both born in 1963 and circa 8 years old at their floruit period in 1971. Now, two Finnish kids can have a native language, and hence their duo can also have a native language, and a name in their native language that is (slightly) different from the duo's name in English. Now, how exactly is the constraint useful? --Ehitaja (talk) 15:00, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- I think because name in native language (P1559) is specifically for individuals. I suppose native label (P1705) or official name (P1448) would be suitable. Ghouston (talk) 21:15, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
Is stylized writing really "native language"
[edit]I am a very unaccustomed Wikidata user and English is not my first language, so please bear with me;
Using name in native language (P1559) for how a person decides to style the persons name have been implemented. See for instance Harald Forss (Q5737402) and the edits here [2]. Harald Forss (Q5737402) decided to style his name using only lower case.
But I mean using name in native language (P1559) to characterize how he, or any person, wrote their name is questionable in two ways:
- The way to correctly write Harald Forss in his native language, Swedish, is Harald Forss, as it is in all languages written in latin alphabet. Harald Forrs have made a deliberate decision not to write it according to the conventions to how his native language write names. So how can it be structured as his native name? And;
- is it not wrong to call writing conventions "native language" in the first place?
Salgo60 has informed me, in a heated discussion,[3] that two very prominent users at Wikidata, Moebeus and Nikki, disagree with that it is qustionable, and that they know these things better than me. Can you please inform me how you mean a persons preffered writing style of his name can be "native language"? The description in name in native language (P1559) need to be rewritten if that applies, at least in Swedish.
There is a property proposal here: Wikidata:Property proposal/stylized name.--LittleGun (talk) 15:54, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
- @LittleGun: Hi there. I'm a little surprised by this ping. While I did make a suggestion as to how the problem could be solved, I never claimed it was the only solution (or even the best one). Hopefully this discussion will lead to better properties or at least more clarity, but as a Norwegian I know better than telling Swedes what to do. I'm sure you'll figure it out just fine without me :) Moebeus (talk) 11:57, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
- OK, sorry about that then. I was asked to look you two up on telegram about this. That I was not supposed to run you over. I think it would be the same in Norwegian or English too. E.E Cummings did write his name as e.e. cummings, another deviation from the standard way his name is written in his native language, and hence confusing and even erroneous to use "name in native language" for that styling. LittleGun (talk) 13:22, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
- I have read a bit more on the property, this discussion and above. It is abslolutely clear for me that stylized names are not "name in native language". On the contrary. Stylized name ar the opposite. LittleGun (talk) 08:18, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
- OK, sorry about that then. I was asked to look you two up on telegram about this. That I was not supposed to run you over. I think it would be the same in Norwegian or English too. E.E Cummings did write his name as e.e. cummings, another deviation from the standard way his name is written in his native language, and hence confusing and even erroneous to use "name in native language" for that styling. LittleGun (talk) 13:22, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
Jyutping transliteration
[edit]Could we add ‘Jyutping transliteration’ as an allowed qualifiers constraint? --Lœnidra (talk) 17:53, 22 November 2021 (UTC)