Talk:Mordred

In Stephen King's Dark Tower series, Mordred is the half son of Roland of Gilead. He is named because of his destiny to kill his father.

What is a half son?--Cuchullain 05:09, 22 September 2005 jerk jerk (UTC)

Who knows, maybe he was created from merging the seed of Roland with some other dude like that wanderer he's after? I never got that far. Funny thing though, King Arthur, Stephen King... Tyciol (talk) 14:24, 14 June 2008 (UTC)Reply

Mordred in the Dark Tower series is depicted as having two fathers, one being Roland (who is the obvious King Arthur figure, or at least King Arthur descendant) and the other being the Crimson King (the villain of the series). I see no problem mentioning this in-article, along with the other modern adaptations, should anyone who is well-informed care to do so.4.227.118.104 (talk) 03:35, 5 November 2008 (UTC) hiReply

The date of Mordred's death could also be 539. Can we incorprate that? 216.43.124.150 20:51, 28 November 2005 (UTC)Reply

Have there been any stories in which Mordred is actually on Arthur's side - and how the events were interpreted as their being on opposing sides? Jackiespeel 22:09, 21 April 2006 (UTC)Reply

There aren't any stories where Mordred and Arthur are on the same side at Camlann, though in most stories Mordred starts out on Arthur's side, as one of the Knights of the Round Table. --Cúchullain ^t/c 17:22, 22 April 2006 (UTC)Reply

I have heard that as a theory, though. I'll see if I can find where I saw it, and if it's actually legit. DuctapeDaredevil 02:50, 24 April 2006 (UTC)Reply

Check out the opening chapter of A Coalition of Lions, by Elizabeth E. Wein. —Mhari^* 21:08, 6 May 2007 (UTC)Reply

Every book I read it has some sort of reference to Mordred. It strange but true, think about it! In every good trilogy theres a mordred to be the bad guy, wich by the way i dont like at all seeing as it was his farther who is in the wrong to begin with, not that anyone ever pionts this at any time. From very upset —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.14.53.15 (talk • contribs) 07:29, 13 June 2006

depends what legend you are taking that statement from. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.111.43.217 (talk) 22:14, 11 October 2007 (UTC)Reply

The form 'Mordred' is found only in the French romances and should really have been avoided. The correct modern Welsh form is Medrod, which was changed to Modredus (Modred) in Geoffrey of Monmouth's ripping yarn. --Henrywgc 23:41, 5 November 2007 (UTC)Reply

Avoided where? If you mean in this article, Wikipedia goes by common names, and Mordred is certainly the most common version today.--Cúchullain ^t/c 00:10, 6 November 2007 (UTC)Reply

Well, I'm not going to get into that arguement! Just to observe that Medrod is the 'common' Welsh name (see Bartrum P.C. 'A Classical Welsh Dictionary') and that 'Mordred' is at least two steps removed from the authentic name of the character of British legend. But, as you like it. --Henrywgc 11:19, 6 November 2007 (UTC)Reply

I'm afraid I don't understand. Are you saying we should rename the article to "Modred" and refer to him as such? If that's the case, we should not. At this point the character has little to do with his origins in shadowy early British legend, and he has a common name in English (this is the English wikipedia). It can even be argued that the "Modred" of Geoffrey's History of the Kings of Britain is not at all based on the Welsh figure. At any rate Wikipedia's naming conventions go for what is the common name for an article; Ghengis Khan is not "Chinggis". If you are arguing that our Welsh transliteration is wrong, you may have a case. However, "Medraut" (or "Medrawt" or "Medravt") is equally or more common in the early references to the character, and is preffered by the reference I use, Rachel Bromwich' Trioedd Ynys Prydein.--Cúchullain ^t/c 21:45, 6 November 2007 (UTC)Reply

I've included both the "Medraut" and "Medrod" spellings per this discussion. Does that clear things up?--Cúchullain ^t/c 21:51, 6 November 2007 (UTC)Reply

Yes, that's a reasonable solution - I see the problem (and you don't really want to get into TYP's orthography i.e. 'Medra6t'). As you say, there is even some doubt as to whether 'Modred' is really the same as Welsh 'Medrod' (was it Kenneth Jackson who thought it was a seperate Cornish/Breton personal name?). Anyway, sorry to have rocked the boat. --Henrywgc 14:07, 9 November 2007 (UTC)Reply

The discussion has been productive, I think the article has been improved. You're right about me avoiding the TYP's "6" orthography, and it was in fact Jackson who suggested "Mordred" and "Medrod" were different. --Cúchullain ^t/c 19:31, 9 November 2007 (UTC)Reply

I would just like to point out that mordred is not always portrayed as a villain. In The Book of Mordred he is the good guy and at the end, he fights arthur, but does not kill him. arthur and he accidentally wound each other, and mordred is willing to sacrifice himself to ensure that arthur lives. in the end, they both live. i think the article touches on that, but I just wanted to reinforce it, because it wasnt very clear. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.54.117.60 (talk) 17:08, 12 December 2007 (UTC)Reply

In the original reference (Annals Cambriae)simply says they both died. Was there any indication he was bad from the early or Welsh sources? If not, this should probably be mentioned in the article. ---G.T.N. (talk) 23:50, 15 March 2008 (UTC)Reply

In the Ducktales episode "Sir Gyro de Gearloose", the villain's name is Lessdred (an obvious parody on the name Mordred). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.223.44.236 (talk) 13:27, 25 April 2008 (UTC)Reply

Neat, I'm surprised they didn't spell it 'Lesdred' though considering the last part of 'More' is not present in Mordred. Tyciol (talk) 14:26, 14 June 2008 (UTC)Reply

He is the the youngest son of Queen Morgause of Orkney. He was raised by King Lot, but his real father was was his uncle, King Arthur. When he discovered the truth, he tried to have the Mordred killed. Along with all the children born his birthday, he was set adrift in a large boat. The boat sank but Mordred survived and was washed up an island shore, from where he was taken in by Lord Nabur the Unruly. He used the reputation of his brother, Sir Gawain, and was made a Knight of the Round Table. For some time, he was the companion of Sir Lancelot, but the good knights influence did not rub off on Mordred. He had affairs with married ladies, he raped some ladies and murdered others. Arthurfavored Mordred and made him regent when he left Britain campaigning against the Roman Empire. He made alliances with the Saxons, Picts & Scots and faked news of Arthur's death, in order to have himself proclaimed King. He declared his will to take Queen Guinevere as his wife, but the Queen said no. She fled to London and barricaded her self in the Tower. News reached Arthur of his son's treachery and he rushed home to reclaim his throne. Mordred's forces were defeated at the Battle of Dover, then at Winchester and he was pursued west into Cornwall. The two armies met for the final time at the Battle of Camlann. Mordred and Arthur were amongst the last warriors standing. A single combat led to Mordred being slain, but not before he had inflicted a mortal wound upon his father. He executed Guinevere for compliance in plot against Arthur then incarcerated Mordred in the dead queen's tomb. His rebellion was continued for a while by his two sons, Melehan and Melou. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.161.158.1 (talk) 20:50, 30 March 2009 (UTC)Reply

Morgan le Fay's article says that her sister Morgause is Mordred's mother, and Mordred's article says that in early Arthurian literature Morgause was indeed his mother, but also says that it was reconned at a later point so that Morgan le Fay was his mother. Morgan's article makes no mention of this recon, so what is with the discrepency? I'm no scholar of Arthurian legend, but in all of the works based off of Arthurian literature I've seen, Morgan le Fay is his mother, so I ask again, what is going on? 75.157.78.82 (talk) 03:20, 28 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

In the medieval works Morgause is always Mordred's mother; in these, Morgause is Morgan le Fay's sister. Some modern works, notably Bradley's The Mists of Avalon, replace Morgause with Morgan le Fay as Mordred's mother. I've tried to reword it to be more clear.--Cúchullain ^t/c 15:04, 28 May 2010 (UTC)Reply

I feel like this belongs in a separate article, as this one is about the Mordred of Arthurian legend, not modern television. Lines like this "However, he is a very good-looking, adorable character that Merkins (what fans of the BBC Drama, Merlin, call themselves) appear to have a love-hate relationship with. " makes me think that it needs a lot of editing before it can even be split off and that it definitely doesn't belong here. So, should we remove this section? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.56.212.133 (talk) 16:02, 16 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

I removed the section, as it's unsourced and recieved far too much undue weight for one modern TV series. The series is already mentioned (though still unsourced) in the section on modern depictions.Cúchullain ^t/c 16:11, 16 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

We appear to be getting into an edit war about categories. The category fictional offspring of incestuous relationships appears to me to be legitimate. Knights of the Round Table is a subcat of Arthurian characters, which is a subcat of Arthurian legend, so there is no need for overcategorization. PatGallacher (talk) 20:13, 4 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

While I realize that the "pink fluffy" edit war might have caused some text to be pruned, shouldn't we preserve any past mergers still pointed at by existent articles? May Babies, a term linked from current articles, is still an unembellished redirect to this article, despite all mention of that term having been purged from here. Perhaps we should either include some brief definition of May Babies here, along with the role of sacred bastardry and faire babies in early Arthurian myths..or else restore that article, changing it's flat redirect to a "see also" admonishment. 71.235.31.212 (talk) 22:50, 14 February 2015 (UTC)Reply

Hm. Do you know why this information was removed? It seems relevant, and I can't find any mention on the Talk page of why it was deleted. I can put it back, or at least a minimal mention of it, if you think that would be ok. Bookgrrl ^holler/lookee here 16:44, 20 May 2015 (UTC)Reply

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Mordred/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Last edited at 09:25, 6 February 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 00:25, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

I don't see any reference to Troyes on the page currently?--JaredMithrandir (talk) 23:20, 7 December 2017 (UTC)Reply

• In Stephen King's The Dark Tower series, the character Mordred Deschain is the son of Roland Deschain (White Father), the Crimson King (Red Father), Susannah Dean, (Black Mother), and Mia (White Mother), whose conception was facilitated by the demonic spirit who helped Jake enter Mid-World for the second time. In keeping with the historical theme of the name Mordred, the character is a vile and murderous creature, bent on the destruction of Roland Deschain, though simultaneously driven by instinctual and emotional urges beyond his control.
• In Marion Zimmer Bradley's The Mists of Avalon, Mordred is the illegitimate son of Arthur, born of a pagan ritual with his sister during Beltane.
• He also appears as a recurring character in the BBC television series Merlin, portrayed by Asa Butterfield as a child and Alexander Vlahos as an adult, where he is a young Druid with magical gifts similar to the titular character. He later becomes one of Camelot's knights.
• Mordred appears in Philip Reeve's Here Lies Arthur, as Medrawt. He is Arthur's half-sister's older son, the younger being Bedwyr (Bedivere). He avenges his brother's murder by Arthur, for betrayal with Arthur's wife, Gwenhwyfar (Guenivere]), by raising an army, attacking Arthur, killing him at Camlann, and taking the city of Aquae Sulis (ruled by Arthur) for himself.
• In the anime Fate/Apocrypha both Arthur and Mordred are depicted as women, yet their backstory includes similar struggles as canonical context.Radiobox32 (talk) 10:54, 13 April 2020 (UTC)Reply
• Surely the most prominent example is T. H. White's The Once and Future King. --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) (talk) 14:02, 17 August 2021 (UTC)Reply
• Mordred appears in later books of The Squire's Tales series (1998-2010) by Gerald Morris as an antagonist. He works with his mother Morgause to attempt to destabilize his father Arthur's reign, and to take the throne for his own.
• The book Avalon High (2005) by Meg Cabot takes place in a modern-day high school where stories from Arthurian legend are repeating themselves. Mordred corresponds to Marco, the step-brother/half-brother of Will, or Arthur. He is portrayed by Devon Graye in 2010 film adaptation.
• Mordred appears in Half Sick of Shadows (2021) by Laura Sebastian. His family background is changed, as he is the illegitimate son of Uther and the half-brother of Arthur. He schemes with his wife Morgause (his step-sister) to try and take the throne instead of Arthur after their father's death. The main character, Elaine of Astolat, has the ability to see the future and sees that he will eventually mortally wound Arthur.
• In DC Comics Mordred is the villainous son of Morgaine le Fey. He appears in the Justice League animated series voiced by Soren Fulton.

Calliope09 (talk) 22:33, 29 September 2021 (UTC)Reply