User talk:Scjessey

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Talk page guidelines

Please respect etiquette and assume good faith. Also be nice and remain civil.

Fine page!

That's a very attractive talkpage you've got here. Minimalist yet striking. darwinbish ^BITE ☠ 23:34, 11 November 2016 (UTC).[reply]

A pie for you!

Thanks for your contributions to WP! Sorry for the whole Trump thing. Hopefully I did not come off in a bad light. I was not trying to be an ass or anything. As I said I don't think either of us did anything particularly reprehensible, but I still feel responsible for getting us both sacked. Hope this pie makes up for anything I did or failed to do. Cheers (and for the record I'm not a MAGA person, not that I would let it get in the way of NPOV if I was) ‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalencia ^ᐐT₳LKᐬ 16:45, 27 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you!

		The Civility Barnstar
		For being unbelievably civil in your response to a frustrating situation here in our community of volunteers (the irony of the beverage in this barnstar is not lost on me). 172.56.21.117 (talk) 21:01, 28 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Careful

Editor's priviledge -- Scjessey (talk) 13:57, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Be careful of 1RR [1] [2] ~Awilley (talk) 13:58, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Awilley: - Not applicable. They were completely different sections, and both edits were challenges to new material, and so permissible by Arbcom ruling. -- Scjessey (talk) 14:04, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I point you to the definition of a revert: "A "revert" means any edit (or administrative action) that reverses the actions of other editors, in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material." (From WP:Edit warring emphasis added) Are you able to point me to the Arbcom ruling that makes an exception for challenging new material? ~Awilley (talk) 14:26, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Er... I think this is the way NeilN enforces it, but now you have me confused. Editors must be able to challenge new material in this way, or the system is broken. -- Scjessey (talk) 14:28, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You should be worried about how I enforce it. The system has other checks for editors who aggressively add material. ~Awilley (talk) 14:37, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) One editor doesn't get to sit on an article and revert everything added without considering WP:1RR. That being said, if an editor is adding new material with each edit and constantly getting reverted by different editors then we can look at that as well. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 14:39, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@NeilN: In that case, I have misinterpreted how the BRD/challenge system is supposed to work. My first reversion is still under discussion and awaiting new respondents. My second reversion, which I guess took me over 1RR, has been resolved, with the result being the removal of additional material to complement the reversion. If you or Awilley think my reversions are disruptive enough to warrant sanction, I will not complain; however, I believe this will make it hard to cope with multiple, separate additions. In fact, I raised this exact point in one of the discussions. -- Scjessey (talk) 14:52, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) If you really prefer a sanction to simply self-reverting one of your edits then please consider yourself restricted to WP:1RR on all articles related to post-19-whatever American Politics. I'll finish up the paperwork later. ~Awilley (talk) 15:13, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Scjessey has pointed out one dysfunction of the system. The other one that's been mentioned by several talk page editors, and by me on NeilN's talk page a while back, is that after content has "aged" by a month or so, it is being rewritten -- often in flurries of consecutive edits -- to insinuate POV changes under the guise of "copyedit" "remove redundant sources" etc. and anyone who restores the stable version of any of these changes will be making a 'revert' under the current 1RR interpretation. The result is that only a fraction of these bad edits gets reverted each time and the others tend to be forgotten and cannot be reverted for another month until they age so that they can be undone without "reverting". I believe that the Admins who regularly watch this page have seen this and some kind of attention to this issue would be helpful. SPECIFICO talk 15:06, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@SPECIFICO: Regarding your second point, "cannot be reverted for another month until they age" doesn't make a lot of sense. If the rewrites introduce objectionable terms/insinuations then a revert triggers the consensus required restriction. I know I've warned editors trying to change stable material this way. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 15:15, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi NeilN. The problem is that when there are say half a dozen of these questionable tweaks all at once, an editor "uses up" his daily revert on one of them. Then five other editors can be similarly disabled for the day if they all come to undo the damage. And they usually can't be "undone" en masse because they may have one or two valid cleanup edits among them so a mass revert is not possible and "undo" wont work where some of the text has been tweaked in more than one edit. SPECIFICO talk 15:19, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@SPECIFICO: I'm missing something. Why are the five other editors stopped from reverting changes? Are you saying they've used up their individual reverts but the original editor is still tweaking after that? --NeilN ^{talk to me} 15:27, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Editors say they are reluctant to "use up" their daily revert undoing somebody who appears to be gaming the system, leaving them unable to engage with new content that will expand and improve the article. Comments to this effect are scattered on the talk page over time, sometimes even with a call for someone else with a revert available to step in. It appears to be gaming the system when one editor can disable several others by waiting a month and then changing longstanding content (not a revert) while it takes several editors using up their daily budget to undo the damage. This might sound like cloak and dagger stuff, but I assure you it's an increasing problem because it's a very effective strategy for editors who wish to insert non-consensus minority or fringe material in these articles. SPECIFICO talk 15:45, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@SPECIFICO: It would be helpful if you could list diffs of edits that employ this strategy or alert an admin (providing diffs) the next time it occurs. Admins have heard the desire for a greater willingness on their part to employ sanctions so any game playing like that will be looked at. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 18:18, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

NeilN, that is very constructive and I will do so on your talk page either looking back or next time I feel that this has occurred. SPECIFICO talk 18:21, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Awilley: I can self-revert if you like, but it will just mean another editor will have to revert my revert, since we already have a consensus on the new version. Do you want me to do that to avoid sanction? Also, I can't actually do an "undo" of the edit in question because of subsequent edits. I'll have to do it manually, then someone else will have to revert my edit. This all seems rather pointless, but I'll do it to avoid sanction if you insist. -- Scjessey (talk) 15:36, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The ship has sailed on avoiding sanction. You would have avoided it if you had self-reverted after my 2nd or 3rd post here. The only thing I haven't decided on yet is the duration. Re: manual reverts, I expect Wikipedians to be proactive problem solvers. I don't have time to hold your hand the whole way and I'm certainly not going to explain how to do a manual revert or tell you what to put in your edit summary. ~Awilley (talk) 16:33, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Awilley: The second reversion that challenged added material, the one that took me over 1RR, prompted a discussion on the talk page with the editor in question (which is how it is supposed to work). It led to a solution we were both happy with, which the other editor then implemented, before you even had a chance to make your second post to this discussion. Reverting my offending edit thereafter would have been a pointless exercise. I even pinged NeilN because of my confusion, which led to a useful discussion about issues with this policy. So at this point, any sanction you give me would not be to "prevent harm" to the encyclopedia, but rather it would be purely punitive. If you really feel it is necessary, please do what you think is best; however, perhaps you should consider consulting one of your administrator colleagues. Incidentally, if your intention is to restrict me to 1RR on the politics topic, is that not already the case? Is that not why you are sanctioning me in the first place? I'm confused. -- Scjessey (talk) 17:16, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) My objective here is to teach you to follow 1RR and to be proactive in fixing your own mistakes. When an editor or admin approaches you on your talk page pointing out a mistake you have made, it is your responsibility to fix that mistake, not argue endlessly about policy. To me that (preventative) lesson is worth the extra disruption of making SPECIFICO or whoever spend 5 seconds re-reverting your self-revert. ~Awilley (talk) 18:06, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Awilley: I already understand how 1RR works (I have a substantial, multi-year editing history), although I confess I thought it did not apply to "challenged material". I think what you are suggesting is punitive, not preventative. I'm sorry you can't see the absurdity of me reverting a thing and then asking someone else to undo the revert (costing them their 1RR of the day) just to satisfy what I perceive to be astonishing inflexibility on your part. I'm just shaking my head here. -- Scjessey (talk) 19:33, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

We'll just have to agree to disagree I suppose. In the future though, if somebody approaches you on your talk page and correctly informs you that you've exceeded 1RR (or 3RR or whatever) your next edit should be to self-revert something, assuming you want to avoid a sanction. The more you put it off and argue the more likely you are to get a block. In re-reading the above I realize that I didn't actually ask you to self-revert early on. I assumed (incorrectly apparently) that as an experienced editor you would know that was the right thing to do. Because of that I'm not going to make the 1RR sanction as long as I had determined to do earlier today. It will be for 3 months and covers post 1932 American Politics broadly construed. I won't insult you with a template, but it will be logged at Wikipedia:Arbitration_enforcement_log/2018#American_politics_2. It can be appealed directly to me or at WP:AE if you want. To answer your question above, this 1RR is only partially redundant with the politics articles you edit, not all of which are covered by the special 1RR and consensus required rules. ~Awilley (talk) 06:27, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Awilley: I accept the penalty, although I maintain it is entirely punitive, and I think that reflects on your approach to administation poorly. I won't be arguing it, because I admit the violation (although I didn't initially think it was a violation). I believe editors should be able to do what I did without it being a violation, although that's for discussion elsewhere. -- Scjessey (talk) 13:15, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Awilley, you are basically citing Scjessey for jaywalking while there's folks across the street holding hostages by the throat chanting in tongues. Anyway, Scjessey is actually one of the editors who received an AE warning long ago and has done nothing uncivil since then. He's a poster-person for how DS should work, not a problem case. I don't think anything other than acknowledgement of his acknowledgement and a smile is necessary to prevent any future problem. SPECIFICO talk 17:43, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

(Personal attack removed)

My bad, I thought you were referring to JFG with your "holding hostages by the throat" analogy. ~Awilley (talk) 18:34, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Scjessey had the courtesy to notify me of this discussion, as all his reverts today challenged my edits. Technically he did perform three reverts of newly-added content: 11:28, 13:34 and 13:42. On the other hand, he engaged in good-faith discussion on the talk page, and recognized his errors when pointed out.[3] Any sanction should be lenient. — JFG ^talk 18:07, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, JFG, although that middle edit is clearly not a reversion. -- Scjessey (talk) 19:26, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This middle edit at 13:34 was most certainly a revert of the content I added at 12:46. You chose to keep only the part that MrX added at 13:01 for balance, and you called it "false balance" in the ensuing discussion.[4] Note that I had asked you to voluntarily undo your change due to a potential process violation,[5] but out of courtesy I did not push things further. — JFG ^talk 20:28, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Your interpretation is flawed, but whatever. -- Scjessey (talk) 00:13, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It's pretty clear that Awilley exercised the patience of Job with Scjessey. This is the Trump article. He was within his rights to block the minute he saw the violation. He was within his rights to block the entire time Scjessey was arguing about the "broken system." But what strikes me as troubling is Scjessey's initial remark "permissible by Arbcom ruling" and then when challenged changed his story to "Er... I think this is the way NeilN enforces it." Even after Scjessey's defense of the 1RR has been vacated, Awilley gives him yet another chance with "You should be worried about how I enforce it..." but Scjessey still does not self-revert. Endorse 1RR restriction primarily because when his defense collapsed he didn't take responsibility for it. – Lionel^(talk) 01:10, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, but it's not really a vote. ~Awilley (talk) 06:27, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Awilley is correct; nobody took this incident to WP:AE, and Awilley has decided on a sanction by his own initiative, which is the spirit of "discretionary sanctions". Case closed. — JFG ^talk 07:53, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Lionelt: Who asked for your opinion? -- Scjessey (talk) 13:15, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@JFG: It's not "in the spirit of discretionary sanctions" at all. The purpose of the sanctions is to prevent harm coming to Wikipedia. None of the edits I did were harmful. They were productive. In the case of the "violating" edit, it led to a mini-consensus between the two of us that we were both satisfied with. And it was that edit that led to me being sanctioned. That's just dumb. -- Scjessey (talk) 13:15, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think Awilley has been graceful and lenient in his interactions with you; not sure it's in your best interest to criticize his decision as "punitive". Besides, there were three different reverts, and you are still contesting that they were reverts, while claiming you "understand how 1RR works". Puzzling. — JFG ^talk 13:23, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@JFG: Lenient? Most other administrators would've passed it off with a slap on the wrist at the most. WP:PUNISH makes it clear this was a punitive act, since it did nothing to serve the goal of preventing harm to Wikipedia. Moreover, criticizing the actions of an administrator should have no effect on my "interests". Finally, two of my edits were reversions. The other one is something you concocted to make me look bad. -- Scjessey (talk) 13:57, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you

		The Barnstar of Integrity
		For upholding the spirit of BRD at Talk:Donald Trump#Reversion explanation. — JFG ^talk 07:13, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@JFG: Thank you :-) -- Scjessey (talk) 11:38, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Some baklava for you!

While I obviously disagree with you regarding my Trump article edits, and I believe in God, it seems we agree on a number of things. I agree that organized religion does more harm than good, whether it's Islamic terrorism or Catholic priests abusing children and covering it up. I am likewise a fiscal conservative and social liberal. I believe in a woman's right to abortion, and same-sex marriage (if you are against abortion, don't have one, and if you are against same-sex marriage don't marry someone of the same sex - but don't tell other people what to do with their lives). Everyone should have the same rights and protections - no more and no less. I believe in smaller government, but recognize that there are some issues only a strong federal government can address (e.g. environmental protection, workplace safety). I believe the Constitution has been weakened in many ways, in particular by subrogating States' rights, expansion of the commerce clause, and by Congress delegating rulemaking to executive agencies.

And who doesn't like baklava? JohnTopShelf (talk) 21:09, 20 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@JohnTopShelf: Thank you! -- Scjessey (talk) 22:32, 20 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar substitute for you!

Greetings!

I have in the past offered unsolicited criticism of the nature of your participation at Talk:Donald Trump. I don't have a clear memory of what I complained about, but I do recall thinking you were flirting with topic ban. I came here to tell you that I perceived a marked improvement I guess about 6 months ago, and it has been a lasting one. I appreciate it, and I wanted to give credit where credit is due. I don't think this has much to do with the fact that you seem to side with me a lot lately; at least I hope I'm not that shallow.

I'd spend the time trying to find an appropriate barnstar, but it appears you don't save them here or on your user page.

So I arrived here and noticed the previous section, in which you received a complaint from an experienced editor (his adminship is perhaps irrelevant, I don't know), and you neither responded to the complaint nor acted on it. You just ignored the complaint, and the comment he referred to made it into the archive. So my high praise has to be tempered slightly.

Looking forward to a continued working relationship. ―Mandruss ☎ 19:07, 16 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Mandruss: Your comment is much appreciated, as your unsolicited criticism has been. I've been a Wikipedian for many years, but I'm not such an "old hand" that I can't take advice from others. The topic areas I mostly involve myself with a quite, er, spirited in their nature, so it is easy for me to get emotionally caught up in things from time to time. I collect nice comments and barnstars at User:Scjessey/Awardery. And by way of penance, I collect the less nice stuff too: User talk:Scjessey/Bad boy.

With respect to the complaint you mentioned, I looked at my comment and did not think it was inappropriate at the time, and given my previous interactions with the editor who complained I did not think I would be able to respond productively. You could say the lack of response was my response. With the benefit of a historical perspective I would agree my comment doesn't look good in a vacuum; nevertheless, in the context of the inflamed passions of the discussion at the time I am still content to leave it. I hope you aren't too disappointed in me for doing so.

Please do continue to offer your unsolicited criticism in this space moving forward, as I value it greatly. -- Scjessey (talk) 13:45, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

DS alert refresh: AP

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have shown interest in post-1932 politics of the United States and closely related people. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.

Here's your friendly annual DS alert refresh for the AP2 topic area, about 11 months overdue. Enjoy! ―Mandruss ☎ 23:05, 14 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Mandruss: Thank you, my friend. -- Scjessey (talk) 15:06, 15 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Biden RfC

I think your arguments on the Biden RfC would be stronger if you left out discussion of the credibility of the accusations and the role of Sanders and Trump supporters in promoting them. This could alienate Sanders and Trump supporters who might otherwise agree with you. We cannot know how credible the arguments are or are not and one would expect Biden's opponents to pay more attention to allegations against him, regardless of their credibility, than his own supporters. These are the same arguments supporters of Kavanaugh used. The only policy based reason for exclusion is weight. TFD (talk) 18:11, 30 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@The Four Deuces: I understand what you are saying; however, I wasn't referring to the supporters of those individuals, but rather the sources being largely of that persuasion. As far as policy is concerned, I also think WP:BLP is significant: If you cannot find multiple reliable third-party sources documenting the allegation or incident, leave it out. I think the sources we have fall short of those requirements. -- Scjessey (talk) 20:28, 30 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment review

Had to shake my head about this one. You started with "Exactly", indicating you agreed with SPECIFICO that Personal opinions are not really helpful - there's no way they can support article improvement, so it's best to leave them out. Then you finished with, wait for it, a personal opinion, indicating that your personal opinions are ok, the only problem is personal opinions contrary to yours. Do you listen to yourself?

I'm fairly resigned to some amount of that kind of talk in article talk. I even do a bit of it myself. I am not resigned to editors lecturing others in the same comment as they do the same thing they are lecturing about. ―Mandruss ☎ 04:15, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It was deliberate. I was trying to be funny, but I guess it needed a smiley or something. -- Scjessey (talk) 12:19, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mandruss, you know Scjessey well enough to know he's fairly far down on the list of editors who might benefit from any reminder about POV stuff. SPECIFICO talk 12:32, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's okay. Mandruss is welcome to comment on such things, and is bang on the money. I had not intended my comment to be taken the way it was. -- Scjessey (talk) 12:36, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No problem with Mandruss. Because you've disclosed your British heritage, the irony was apparent to me. Maybe not to all the Yanks. SPECIFICO talk 12:51, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently I'm too Amurkin or too literal to know what you're both talking about, but I apologize for that defect. ―Mandruss ☎ 21:11, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What is amerkin? Did you mean a gherkin? SPECIFICO talk 23:22, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

My fellow Amurkins... ―Mandruss ☎ 00:56, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hyperbole is not helpful

Greetings Scjessey. In recent weeks, you have repeatedly indulged in hyperbole when commenting at Talk:Donald Trump:

On the dialogue with North Korea: "it was a total failure by any metric"; "woeful, one-sided coverage to a spectacular foreign policy failure"; "If you exclude the "failure" part, you are effectively excluding the only substantive part of the whole debacle."; "North Korea is at war with the United States and the DPRK's leaders are murderous dictators who America shouldn't be negotiating with. This is like when Neville Chamberlain met with Hitler."
About a source being discussed: "The suggestion that The Atlantic has a "perceptible slant" is laughable and has no basis in fact whatsoever."
Disparaging your fellow editors: "Thank goodness it won't be you doing the closing, Mark, since you clearly aren't up to the task with that absurd summary."
Disrespecting process: "Can we all agree this RfC should be aborted? It's a mess."; "Abort horribly misguided RfC."; "Really, this whole thread is a waste of time."
Disparaging the American populace: "There are actual people out there who are dumb enough to believe Trump has personally sent them checks."
Gratuitously attacking the BLP subject: "he has turned it into a Big Thing that makes the United States look like a dictatorship"

I'm puzzled as how you think such remarks are useful to the conversation. If you still think Trump is Hitler reincarnate, keep it to yourself and get a stiff drink. In general, please tone it down or bite your tongue. — JFG ^talk 01:56, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If you still think Trump is Hitler reincarnate - Speaking about hyperbole? Do you have a link for Scjessey saying that? The quote above certianly does not say that. SPECIFICO talk 02:03, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

When I want your opinion, I'll contact you on your own talk page. Scjessey and myself can perfectly have an adult conversation sparkled with humorous hyperbole without your zealous urge to intervene. — JFG ^talk 02:15, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@JFG: Thanks for your comments! I will, of course, be completely ignoring them. Where Trump is concerned, it is almost impossible to be hyperbolic. I stand by everything I have said. -- Scjessey (talk) 19:16, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Returning on another subject, just saw JFG's comment! Sounds like the "Lysol was sarcasm" bit. 🤐 SPECIFICO talk 14:36, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@JFG: While I can relate to the "butt out" sentiment, it's contrary to the spirit and tradition of "talk page stalking". If you want a one-on-one conversation, use email. This is not to imply support for or opposition to your other comments. ―Mandruss ☎ 14:48, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Heads up

Check 1RR at Trump. ―Mandruss ☎ 14:41, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Mandruss: Well spotted. I was going to self revert, but it has been changed to something else. -- Scjessey (talk) 15:10, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Biden 1

Scjessey, I feel your pain on the BLP/Biden thread. I don't know whether you are aware that this editor is under a short-term ban from the Biden article and that there's been related discussion on its talk page and at User_talk:Bradv#1RR_violations. Stiff upper lip, etc. SPECIFICO talk 14:41, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@SPECIFICO: I was not aware of the ban. It explains the vociferous arguing with a lack of article editing, I guess. With that said, it doesn't change my desire to try to work with Kolya to improve the article. -- Scjessey (talk) 14:48, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, absolutely. SPECIFICO talk 15:10, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

SPECIFICO, please do not ever refer to me as "its" again. I take such language as a transphobic personal attack. Kolya Butternut (talk) 15:41, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please elaborate

Scjessey, please tell me what you meant by this. I do not appreciate that; I hope we have a misunderstanding. Kolya Butternut (talk) 15:43, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It means I think for some reason, your focus has shifted away from the good of the Project to some other goal. Your entire Wikipedia existence since late March has been directed towards this one story, and that isn't healthy. -- Scjessey (talk) 17:59, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You said, "Again with the revisionism. You keep on doing this, and it is why every attempt that every editor has made to negotiate with you has failed. At least pretend to want to cover this neutrally and in the proper weight. It's exasperating"

I don't know what you're referring to as "revisionism"; I have been trying to work with you and others to cover this neutrally.

And now I'm hearing you say that I have "some other goal" other than working towards the good of the Project. I think there may be some projection; I go where I feel I am needed. We just have different opinions about what NPOV looks like. Kolya Butternut (talk) 18:33, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I said "revisionism" because you painted a picture of our interactions that was not a fair reflection of what happened. In fact, you have done the same above. I see little evidence that you have a true understanding of WP:NPOV, frankly. By trying to shoehorn a large amount of Reade material into the article, you are violating WP:WEIGHT, which in turn violates NPOV. -- Scjessey (talk) 11:07, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I see, so we each feel we have made a better attempt at collaboration than the other. In the future please discuss how you feel rather than describing your perception of my good faith efforts, because your perception of what I am trying to do is inaccurate. Please note my attempt at compromise.[6]. Kolya Butternut (talk) 11:31, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Editing the article text without an agreement on the talk page first is not "compromise" at all. -- Scjessey (talk) 12:15, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You're changing the subject to criticize my boldness instead of addressing your inaccurate characterizations of my editing goals and compromise proposal. Kolya Butternut (talk) 12:22, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am stating facts, not characterizations. Honestly, this is not going to be a productive conversation. We are just going to have to agree to disagree. -- Scjessey (talk) 12:41, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Revert IP

Re this, it looks to be the same IP since the first four "words" of the address are the same, 2600:1702:2340:9470. The remainder of the address changes automatically and frequently for a given user. ―Mandruss ☎ 12:23, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. -- Scjessey (talk) 12:54, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This prompted me to open this. Unlikely it will go anywhere, but worth floating. ―Mandruss ☎ 13:12, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'll admit to not having a clue about the IP address protocol. -- Scjessey (talk) 15:34, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you!

	The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
	For actually reading and sticking to what sources say. SPECIFICO talk 22:32, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@SPECIFICO: Most generous of you. -- Scjessey (talk) 17:57, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

hello

Why did I have the impression you weren't around these parts anymore? Good to see you! Tvoz/talk 03:15, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Tvoz: I am very much alive and active. I'm still focusing on the articles related to the Presidency, plus the usual suspects on my watchlist. -- Scjessey (talk) 17:56, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Tvoz likes this.

Erm

Was the stupid comments edit summary really necessary? Glen 13:28, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Glen: I suppose not, but GoodDay is an experienced editor who knows better and they were stupid comments. -- Scjessey (talk) 13:30, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not disagreeing, but, you know, WP:CIVIL and all that :) Glen 13:31, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You shouldn't be deleting mine or any other editors' posts. Collapse them perhaps (though that would be based on your own personal reading). GoodDay (talk) 16:00, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. Article talk is not a place for partisan garbage. -- Scjessey (talk) 16:03, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@GoodDay: I probably should've just done an "instant archive" instead of removing it, but at the end of the day you already know that posting that kind of nonsense is unacceptable. After all these years of editing, I cannot believe you've made such an error of judgment. -- Scjessey (talk) 16:10, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What you do is either allow the RFC closer decide if my posts have merit or not, or you simply collapse it. You've done neither. You shouldn't be acting as though you're the boss, there. GoodDay (talk) 16:14, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

GoodDay, your conduct is simply not within Wikipedia norms. Removal or archiving is the least aggressive response, after repeated insertions like that. If you do it again, you risk sanctions. SPECIFICO talk 16:55, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've restore my posts only once, where's Scjessey deleted them twice. GoodDay (talk) 17:14, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You have inserted them twice - denial doesn't help here. SPECIFICO talk 17:37, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I gather the original comment was the tired old argument about liberal media bias, which is directly contrary to Wikipedia content policy? That's not entirely clear to me since I haven't been around GoodDay very much. I would've ignored or collapsed, depending on my mood, and a long-term pattern of such should go to AE. I wouldn't have archived or removed such a comment from an established editor, regardless of history. And I hope I wouldn't call it a stupid comment. But that's me. As usual, no clean hands on either side here. ―Mandruss ☎ 17:52, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I will vouch for Mandruss, who is generally more imaginative with his pronouncements, and "stupid" would not be his style. SPECIFICO talk 21:52, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Time to stop using Talk:Donald Trump as a forum

In the last 3 months you have made 178 edits to Talk:Donald Trump and only 7 edits to Donald Trump. Of those 7, 4 were reverts and 3 were minor edits. This is not what "building an encyclopedia" looks like. If your posts on the talk page were all related to article development that would be one thing, but too high a proportion of your posts are you venting and expressing your personal opinions about the latest outrage or simply arguing with other editors. Here are a couple examples plucked from the current revision of the talk page:

Some of the arguments favoring Trump's COVID-19 response here are just astonishing. Mainstream media overwhelmingly describes the administration's response as being nine kinds of crap. Just look at the charts showing new cases and deaths and compare them with literally any other "first world" country, and it is clear the US response has SUCKED. Now the good name of Fauci is being dragged through the mud because some of the things he said earlier in the crisis were not accurate, despite the fact that it is a GOOD THING for scientists to revise their recommendations as new data comes in. It is almost impossible to overstate how badly the Trump administration has handled COVID-19, and blanket "oppose all" statements not accompanied by reasonable alternatives are absolutely useless to this discussion.
It's particularly funny given that Trump is STILL claiming COVID19 will just "go away" without a vaccine.
The only reason I mentioned it is that technically I believe the responsibility lies with Bill Barr. He could prevent this from happening, but he has become such a weakened Attorney General he basically does whatever he is told to do. (Citation needed for Barr just doing "whatever he is told to", otherwise it's a BLP vio)

If you want more examples, simply follow the links given in this sample of warnings from other users who have asked you to cool down and stop making unhelpful comments: Drmies [7] MrX [8], Mandruss [9], Puedo [10], and myself [11]. Really, it's time to stop. Otherwise I'm prepared to drop a topic ban. ~Awilley (talk) 16:13, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Awilley: The high number of talk page edits in relation to main space edits is perfectly normal for me. I try to spend my time helping to make decisions, but I usually leave the implementation of those decisions to other editors. This has been my consistent modus operandi for many years. As such, I reject your characterization that I am not "building an encyclopedia". Nevertheless, your point about my personal opinions being expressed too often is well taken. We live in an astonishing time when polarization, false equivalence, conspiracy theories and the denigration of the free press are the new normal. I admit I have allowed my personal expression to run a little more freely that I used to, although of course I never express that opinion in the main article space. I will do my best to keep such opinions in check, especially in the run up to one of the most important presidential elections in our lifetime. I am grateful to you for coming here to give me a slap with the proverbial trout, rather than just swinging the ban hammer. -- Scjessey (talk) 17:16, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Biden 2

What do you mean “every single person on the team gets to play?” I literally can’t tell if your joking or not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1012:B1AB:433B:403A:6822:C042:6320 (talk) 16:42, 27 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@2600:1012:B1AB:433B:403A:6822:C042:6320: It's meant to be sarcasm. -- Scjessey (talk) 20:15, 27 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Trident 660

Hey I saw the picture in the Triumph Trident 660 was taken by you. I just bought one yesterday and was going to do up a new picture for the info box. Do you have any issue with that? PackMecEng (talk) 13:47, 11 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@PackMecEng: None whatsoever, and congratulations on your new Triumph! You must feel free to come back here and tell me all about it. I very nearly bought one myself, but I am now leaning toward getting a Speed Twin (currently working on a new article for same). I am hoping to test ride both the 660 and the Speed Twin in the near future. -- Scjessey (talk) 13:51, 11 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

So far it's been a hoot! I ended up getting the quick shifter, connectivity module, and a couple other odds and ends. So far I couldn't be happier so far. Big upgrade from my little 390 Duke. One of the things I really liked was the little TFT display in there for Nav. It's not as full featured as a cell phone on the bars but it is a lot cleaner. Only thing is it's a bit bigger for a little lady like myself but then again most are! I had the opportunity to sit on a Speed Twin while I was at the dealer and it is really nice. I doubt you would be unhappy with either. What kind of riding do you generally do? PackMecEng (talk) 14:00, 11 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Also if you are thinking of the Trident out the door with matt jet black and silver ice, quick shifter, connectivity module, TPMS, bar end mirrors(not in yet), and USB charger I was $10,632. PackMecEng (talk) 14:09, 11 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If I was getting a 660, I'm pretty sure it would be identical spec to yours. I'd probably omit the bar end mirrors in favor of the grab handles at the rear. -- Scjessey (talk) 14:19, 11 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Both of you please wear your helmets so you can keep up the editing here. SPECIFICO talk 13:54, 11 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

ATGAT for sure! PackMecEng (talk) 14:00, 11 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly. I live in Pennsylvania where it is common for people to ride without helmets, and I think they are out of their fucking minds. Full-face lid for me! -- Scjessey (talk) 14:19, 11 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@PackMecEng: One reason why I have not bought a 660 is that I am hoping to do a bit of touring and the Trident isn't ideally suited to attaching saddlebags, etc. -- Scjessey (talk) 19:54, 11 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ah yeah I see what you mean. They really only have a tank and tail bag from OEM. Plus the wind protection is basically non-existent. At speed down the highway it is pretty rough. PackMecEng (talk) 21:20, 11 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I guess highway riding isn't really what it is designed for. It's more for your local twisty bits. -- Scjessey (talk) 13:11, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yup yup, it's been fun riding downtown. Less so on the highway. PackMecEng (talk) 00:53, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ashtead

Hi @Scjessey:
I have been doing some research on Ashtead and I understand that you lived in the village for a time. In the past few months, I have been working to improve a draft of the current article here - User:Mertbiol/sandbox2. I wondered if you would be willing to take a look and to let me know if there are areas that need to be improved or if there are key aspects of the village that you feel are not covered. I would be very happy for you to leave feedback here or for you to edit the draft directly - whatever is easiest for you.
Thanks and best wishes Mertbiol (talk) 09:44, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Mertbiol: My goodness! Your revised version is a substantial improvement on the existing article and I would wholeheartedly approve of its adoption. It's tremendous work that surely elevates it to Featured Article status. Honestly I can find no issues with it at all. Fantastic job! -- Scjessey (talk) 13:25, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Scjessey: Thanks very much for reading through the draft and for responding so quickly. I will transfer the draft over to the main article. I would like to nominate it for a Good Article review soon (probably towards the end of June), but there are a couple more sources that I would like to consult first. Libraries have been open again for a while here in the UK, but finding the time to get to them is challenging at the moment!

Thanks again for your kind comments and I'll keep you updated as the article moves towards WP:GAN. Best wishes Mertbiol (talk) 13:40, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Epsom

Hi @Scjessey:
Hope all is well with you. I've been working on the Epsom article over the past few months and I am thinking about submitting it for WP:GA. I'm sure you visited the town many times when you lived in Ashtead and I wondered if you'd be willing to take a look at the article and let me know your thoughts as to how I could improve it before nomination? I have set up a new section on the talk page for interested parties to discuss what additional work is required. I will ask a few others to chip in with their feedback and suggestions.
Thanks and best wishes, Mertbiol (talk) 07:27, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Mertbiol: It's difficult for me to devote any time to Wikipedia at the moment due to a number of other commitments. The other thing I would say is that I moved away from Ashtead in 1988, and not much has changed since then; however, Epsom has changed a lot since then! -- Scjessey (talk) 16:05, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Scjessey: Thanks very much for letting me know and hope to see you back on Wikipedia again soon! All good wishes, Mertbiol (talk) 16:19, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sainsburys all butter fudge

I thought you may be interested as you mentioned some years ago on the tablet talk page that Sainsburys had a "butter fudge" in their range. Who knows whether this incarnation is the same beast but I noticed they now have an "all butter fudge". This is soft and malleable, like a fudge, but a little less so than the average and has a slightly crumbly aspect about it. The flavour is somewhat intermediate between your average fudge and tablet and, when partially dissolved in the mouth, has an aspect to the mouth feel that is a little tablet-like too, I'm guessing down to slightly larger sugar crystals. Not bad an alternative if tablet's not available. I don't mean to needlessly tantalise you with the information that is of little practical use, you now being in the States. Mutt Lunker (talk) 22:44, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Mutt Lunker: It has been a few years since I was last in the UK. I meant to visit this year (celebrate my 50th with family), but the whole COVID thing wrecked that. Sainsbury's used to be my go-to place for tablet, although Tesco's did a halfway decent version as well. Until recently, I was getting some tablet shipped over from a company in London called Mr. Stanley's from time to time; however, they changed the packaging and name a few months ago to Butterfingers Fudge and I haven't had the chance to try it to see if it is still the same stuff. I've tried other brands, but they are definitely on the softer side for my liking. I like the dense, crumbly tablet. I can make it myself, but it's kind of a pain to do. -- Scjessey (talk) 20:00, 4 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Heyyy and hi!

i have been wondering what you have been up to over the years! Came across your photo on here and instantly recognised you! It's Vanessa (from our Trewint Street days in the early 90s). Not sure I will receive replies on here without creating an account but have sent you a message on Facebook (well I THINK it was you anyway! Haha). Would be great to be in touch again and hear all your adventures over the last god knows how many years!! Vanessa x 2.26.65.92 (talk) 23:10, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Vanessa. I'm not actually on Facebook; however, you can get in touch with me through Twitter if you are on there. Another way to contact me is to visit my TrekkieMoto website, scroll to the bottom of the page and then click on the email link. I am understandably reluctant to post an email address on here directly. -- Scjessey (talk) 23:35, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Donald Trump hasn't been the same without you. And I mean that in the most positive way. ―Mandruss ☎ 23:43, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Mandruss I'm still around, but I'm avoiding editing politics for reasons of my sanity! Scjessey (talk) 23:52, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You're hardly alone in that. The editor mix is very different from back in the day. As politics articles go, that particular one is remarkably peaceful and orderly in my opinion, these days. The few troublemakers don't come by very often, and they are easily controlled by the rest of us, which is why they don't come by very often. I'm semi-retired and largely avoid other articles. ―Mandruss ☎ 23:59, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

understood re email address. I have sent you an email via the Trekkiemoto website. Thanks, Simon! X 2.26.65.92 (talk) 18:07, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination of Michael Rymer for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Michael Rymer is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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