Talk:Tower of Babel

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The contents of the Confusion of tongues page were merged into Tower of Babel on 18 February 2018. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page.

This article is substantially duplicated by a piece in an external publication. Since the external publication copied Wikipedia rather than the reverse, please do not flag this article as a copyright violation of the following source: Miller, F. P., Vandome, A. F., & McBrewster, J. (2010), Mythical origins of language: Origin of language, mythology, oral tradition, deluge myth, creator deity, creation myth, confusion of tonges, Tower of Babel, VDM Publishing House{{citation}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link) Additional comments OCLC 727116810, ISBN 9786131702686.

The consensus achieved in this discussion favors describing the topic of this article as a myth. If you've come here to decry its use or suggest it be changed, you should read the discussion first.

I don’t know of any historical, religious, or philosophical tradition or view that considers the story of the tower Babel - or its mythological counterparts - as parable… 66.108.4.206 (talk) 07:45, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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This page claims that the Tower of Babel is a myth and parable, that is, that it hasn't happened. Instead, I would suggest a more ambiguöus approach. GrammarEnglishnorsk (talk) 17:30, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, we stick to what reliable sources say. --bonadea contributions talk 17:36, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Odd that so many nee editors are showing up at related articles arguing that there was a great flood, this story is real, etc Doug Weller talk 18:16, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah. Who tweeted? Remsense诉 18:17, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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REMOVE "Myth" 205.209.252.61 (talk) 18:55, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Declined... - Dude, the word "Myth" appears several times in the article. You need to be a lot more specific about the change you want making. Otherwise, the change you want to be made will never be made by anyone. MadGuy7023 (talk) 19:58, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Should the full text be kept, or replaced with a synopsis, or should both be included? I can't find any guidelines for this situation, nor any featured articles about a myth so short that the full text could be included. I am currently leaning towards including both, because I think they would both aid understanding in the article, but I think the full text would be better in a sidebar block quote. Thoughts?

The other question is whether to include the original Hebrew text, as in Psalm 51. This has the disadvantage of breaking up the text though, making it less readable, so I am currently leaning against including this. Thoughts? It is a wonderful world (talk) 10:38, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My very strong preference is that if a copyrighted passage is to be considered "self-contained" (e.g. it is the subject of the article), then including it in its entirely in an article is completely unacceptable, no matter how short the passage is. See also Complaint tablet to Ea-nāṣir and Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den. We should remove the complete translation, which is ofc NRSV and under copyright, and not feel compelled to replace it—it's not what Wikipedia is for, as an encyclopedia, not a repository for primary sources! Remsense ‥ 论 12:22, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Remsense I completely agree. Doug Weller talk 13:51, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I completely agree with that, I actually assumed the translation would be public domain, but clearly not. Assuming there is a relatively modern translation that is copyright free, would you be oppose to adding that as a sidebar block quote? I think since the story is so short, and the literature so plentiful that it would add more than enough context to be added. It is a wonderful world (talk) 15:34, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The issue is that we would want a well-respected translation that's accurate as well as directly relevant to the article's commentary and analysis. From what I understand, a supermajority of scholars who work with the English-language Bible in whichever discipline prefer the NRSV or ESV (themselves being almost identical to one another as two "forks" of RSV that differ in the broadest strokes according to the fickle divide between modernity's liberal and conservative worldviews, though I am intentionally oversimplifying and gratuitously obscuring the genuine diversity of intellectually honest positions there)

That is to say, I almost wrote out a joke here about how the Bible is unfortunately one of the most difficult books for the intrepid reader to get their hands on, no one makes it available ad-free in thousands of locations or leaves it in your hotel room—but then I remembered that plenty of people live in places that aren't so amenable. That's the one nuance I can think of, but really I think not bothering is the ideal way to go here unless there's a PD translation that's respected and hews close to RSV I'm not able to recall at the moment. Remsense ‥ 论 15:48, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That reasoning seems sound to me. I am removing the NRSV block quote now, and will replace it with a synopsis soon. It is a wonderful world (talk) 19:49, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I really appreciate you taking the time to go into this. I wouldn't have picked up on this point myself. It is a wonderful world (talk) 19:51, 29 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Please change all instances of “Yahweh” to either “the Lord” or “God.”

The name “Yahweh” is a novel, modern invention that has no history is the Christian tradition before a couple hundred years ago.

It is a combination of the Tetragrammaton and the names of other so-called gods from the region around the Old Testament was written. This combination is not present anywhere in the original texts of Scripture.

Thank you. 2600:1700:70D1:1B80:B1A1:EEE8:A41C:66FC (talk) 19:52, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. Remsense ‥ 论 21:01, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]