Talk:Guercino

You can help expand this article with text translated from the corresponding article in Italian. (March 2015) Click [show] for important translation instructions. View a machine-translated version of the Italian article. Machine translation, like DeepL or Google Translate, is a useful starting point for translations, but translators must revise errors as necessary and confirm that the translation is accurate, rather than simply copy-pasting machine-translated text into the English Wikipedia. Consider adding a topic to this template: there are already 725 articles in the main category, and specifying|topic= will aid in categorization. Do not translate text that appears unreliable or low-quality. If possible, verify the text with references provided in the foreign-language article. You must provide copyright attribution in the edit summary accompanying your translation by providing an interlanguage link to the source of your translation. A model attribution edit summary is Content in this edit is translated from the existing Italian Wikipedia article at [[:it:Guercino]]; see its history for attribution. You may also add the template {{Translated|it|Guercino}} to the talk page. For more guidance, see Wikipedia:Translation.

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on February 8, 2019.

This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Biography: Arts and Entertainment This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles This article is supported by the arts and entertainment work group (assessed as Low-importance). Visual arts This article is within the scope of WikiProject Visual arts, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of visual arts on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Visual artsWikipedia:WikiProject Visual artsTemplate:WikiProject Visual artsvisual arts articles Italy Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Italy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Italy on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ItalyWikipedia:WikiProject ItalyTemplate:WikiProject ItalyItaly articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

So, are these two paintings both titled "The Return of the Prodigal Son", and both by Guercino, or not?

• 
  Guercino 005.jpg (Kunsthistorisches Museum, Vienna)
• 
  Guercino Return of the prodigal son.jpg (Diocesan Museum, Włocławek)

--Pipetricker (talk) 01:05, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

seems so. why not? Johnbod (talk) 01:26, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I see. I have reverted the changes on the basis of this, and the failure to find any other evidence. Johnbod (talk) 01:42, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

So the answer is Yes – thanks. File:Guercino Return of the prodigal son.jpg had been removed from this article's gallery with the comment that it's by the other Francesco Barbieri (il Legnano), and I was about to revert that, and then I noticed there was still a painting by that title left in the gallery, so I posted here to clear that up. @Jananteen. --Pipetricker (talk) 01:54, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Apropos the above: Should the English title of both these paintings begin with the definite article The, or not? --Pipetricker (talk) 12:46, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that's what they might put on the gallery label, but WP article titles, and references in art history books generally omit "the" in standard religious subjects. Mythological and unusual subjects are rather different. See eg Category:Adoration of the Magi in art, where some have a "the" but really shouldn't. Johnbod (talk) 15:17, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I wasn't thinking about Wp article titles, but mostly about the captions in this article's gallery, where one of these two paintings currently is "The return of ..." and the other is "Return of ...". --Pipetricker (talk) 17:08, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'd drop the "the". Johnbod (talk) 17:44, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Given that the Detroit Institute of Arts, to which this painting currently belongs, catalogues it as coming from the "workshop of Guercino" [1], I'm provisionally moving it here (from the main text of the article). Discussion welcome. 86.186.120.202 (talk) 21:18, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No, best thing to do. Is it a workshop version, with a prime version elsewhere, I wonder? Johnbod (talk) 00:47, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Even if Guercino (possibly) had no hand in making it, but it's from his workshop, that's an aspect of his work worth representation. It shouldn't be under "Works", but could be shown in connection to mentioning the workshop. --Pipetricker (talk) 11:02, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) Ah, yes indeed. Thank you, John! My mistake. According to the Guercino expert David Stone, interviewed here (obscured in Europe, but fully squintable here via Google Translate and a hovering cursor :), there are at least six workshop (or similar) versions around. He would seem to consider the recent Kimbell acquisition to be the prime version, and that's what the museum clearly thinks. So I'll undo. 86.186.120.202 (talk) 11:05, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Best to replace it with prime version, if we have a pic, or choose another. Since workshop versions are generally very close to the prime, but a little less good, it isn't generally worth illustrating them in short articles, imo. Johnbod (talk) 12:49, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, this is the Kimbell version, now anyway, not Detroit. Johnbod (talk) 12:51, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(sorry John, I should perhaps have outlined the details of my oversight a bit more fully :). Agree about prioritization of prime versions, and I also agree that the productivity of his workshop deserves some mention. 86.186.120.202 (talk) 14:04, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]