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Greek Myths' Lover

@ironspdr6700

Cuéntame, Musa, la historia del hombre de muchos senderos... / Tell me, Muse, about the man of many ways... Amante de las epopeyas y las tragedias (griegas). El español es mi idioma nnatal y domino el inglés (¿algo?) / Lover of the (greek) epics and tragedies. Spanish is my native language and domain english (maybe?)
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ilions-end

i'm so heartbroken that nagy's the ancient greek hero in 24 hours is so badly edited and thus the most repetitive book i've ever read, because i enjoy nagy's theories (even if i don't agree with all of them) and how he approaches mythology and gender and homer, but it's soooo incredibly frustrating to read. i've already ragequit this book four times, and i'm still DYING to know the stuff that's in it

thing is, it's supposed to be his 24-lesson university course in book form, and it's clearly not MEANT to read as a transcipt, but there are awkwardly structured sentences that distract me every other paragraph, and extremely repetitive and circular points that, yeah, make SENSE for a spoken course with an exam at the end but is viscerally painful to read.

just give us an audio recording of the course instead, i'm begging

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ironspdr6700

This is exactly what happens to me when I read Aristotle

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So... Who was going to tell me that Mark Twain wrote a novel about Joan of Arc...

ENG: She was 17... she was general of the French army... she help to finish a war of ONE HUNDRED YEARS... she was burned by the Church and 500 years later declared Saint ¡Pascu and Rodrí made her a song (if you don't heard it, what the hell are you doing with your life?)

And Mr. Yanqui-Huckleberry-Missisipi wrote about her?! Why nobody mention her in his works?!

No matter... I'm gonna read it... I'm gonna love her and probably I'm gonna cry because everyone knows how she finished 😢

ESP: Tenía 17 años... era general del ejército francés... ayudó a terminar una guerra de CIEN AÑOS... fue quemada por la Iglesia y 500 años después declarada Santa. Pascu y Rodrí le hicieron una canción (si no la has escuchado, ¿qué estás haciendo con tu vida?)

¿Y el señor Yanqui-Huckleberry-Missisipi escribió sobre ella? ¿Por qué nadie menciona esto en sus obras?

No importa... lo voy a leer... la voy a amar y probablemente voy a llorar porque todos sabemos cómo terminó 😢

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WHY IS CLYTEMNESTRA JUST AND GUILTY AT THE SAME TIME (ACCORDING TO AESCHYLUS)?

Medical school, unfortunately, has been taking up more of my reading time than I'd like. But since we're on 14-HOURS blackouts now, it gives me time to at least read my favorite Greek tragedies in more detail. And of the big 3… My favorite by far is Aeschylus.

I recently read some passages from Gilbert Murray's book "Aeschylus: Creator of Greek Tragedy" and I can't recommend it enough for anyone who is a fan of the Oresteia, because you read Murray first and then you re-read Aeschylus in a totally different way and all the parts that seemed incomprehensible at first make sense. I've read a lot of posts here on Tumblr that defend or demonize Agamemnon or Clytemnestra or Electra, defending one, condemning the other or claiming that they are all equally bad, but I think the problem is that we read the saga of the house of Atreus from our modern perspective. And I think that shows that we don't know how to read Greek tragedies. Tragedy… AUTHENTIC GREEK TRAGEDY AS AN ARTISTIC CREATION, according to Aristotle, should provoke TERROR and COMPASSION in the viewer at the same time. Tragic heroes are different from the rest of traditional heroes because they are not worthy of being imitated, but are trapped in a situation that none of us would want to be in. And we regret that because if we were in their place we wouldn't know how to make a better decision.

Precisely because we are a modern audience, we feel more comfortable with Euripides' theatre, his criticism of mythology and the lack of ethics of the gods (don't get me wrong, I love his Medea and the Trojan Women, which is, in my opinion, one of the greatest treasures of universal literature), but we find it difficult to get into the thought of Aeschylus.

Because Aeschylus belongs to the last link of Archaic Greece, which was transformed into the Classical and rationalist Greece of Euripides, Socrates and Thucydices. Aeschylus was a deeply religious man who lived through decades of transformation: the passage from tyranny in Athens to aristocracy and then to democracy, the battles of Marathon and Salamis between the small Greek city-states against the "excessive" Persian empire and the beginning of the golden age of Athens marked his vision of the world that Divine Justice had an active participation in the world to always balance the scales.

And this also involves a transformation in the conception of Law and Justice in that period of Greek thought. Like the archaic idea that justice is only a synonym for revenge, it becomes a state-mediated process to maintain social peace. According to the archaic conception EVERY MURDER OF ANY MEMBER OF THE FAMILY MUST BE AVENGEANCE, it is not an option, it is an OBLIGATION. From that point of view, Clytemnestra has every right in the world to take revenge on Agamemnon for the sacrifice of Iphigenia, not even the Furies have anything against her because she is not Agamemnon's blood relative, which, superficially, would seem to close the cycle. The only problem is that this is a cycle of violence, and the more violence you add, the more times the cycle keeps repeating itself and the more the wheel of Ananke, the Need to satisfy the spilled violence, keeps turning.

Clytemnestra calls for help from Zeus, "Zeus, through whom all things come to an end", so that she can succeed in her plan. If Clytemnestra kills Agamemnon, it is because ZEUS HAS ALLOWED HER TO DO SO. In Aeschylus, no event ever happens that was not the will of Zeus. Zeus is the guarantor of destiny, the protector of supplicants, the guardian of hospitality… And he is also Zeus the Avenger, in charge of making sure that everyone pays for their crimes in due time. And Agamemnon has a long list of crimes to carry out, not just Iphigenia; as leader of the expedition against Troy, he has allowed the army to destroy everything during the siege, including the altars of the gods… the refuge for the supplicants.

"The altars and temples of their gods have disappeared; the entire race of a people has been annihilated."

Zeus, as guardian of hospitality, sent Agamemnon and Menelaus against Troy for the abduction of Helen:

"Paris, who, having been welcomed into the home of the Atreids, dishonoured the table of hospitality by the abduction of a wife."

But Agamemnon allows his army to GO TO OVER THE TOP IN REVENGE

"Paris will never boast, nor the city that was his accomplice, that the deed outweighed the punishment… he lost the stolen garment, and ruined the house of his parents along with his own country. WITH DOUBLE PUNISHMENT the sons of Priam PAID FOR THEIR GUILT."

So now it is Zeus, Suppliant and Avenger, who must again balance the scales.

"Now those who conquered my country are in turn sentenced by the gods."

As a second point in favor, Clytemnestra, at least in the first work of the trilogy, is more than just a woman, she seems more like she is possessed by a divinity:

"…say not that I am the wife of Agamemnon. That ancient and fierce spirit of vengeance that garnished the cruel feast of Atreus, that is he who, taking the appearance of the wife of him who lies there, avenged on a man the sacrifice of two children."

This was part of archaic thought, the idea of ​​demons or minor divinities that influence the thought or behavior or actions of human beings and also that the crimes of parents must be paid for by their children if they are not avenged. One of the most interesting posts I read is one that commented that, in archaic literature, one never knows exactly where human freedom begins and where divine will ends. BUT THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT FREE WILL DOES NOT EXIST AND THEREFORE THAT HUMAN BEINGS ARE EXEMPT FROM RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS.

And this is where Clytemnestra also becomes guilty. First, because she murders Cassandra, a Trojan princess, a priestess, a slave who has no say.

"I am forced to suffer the yoke of slavery"

She treats her as if she were Agamemnon's lover, which highlights 1) Clytemnestra's hypocrisy, because she had also taken Aegisthus as a lover, and 2) this is more important, THE LACK OF COMPASSION. Greek tragedy must generate terror and compassion because they are the two emotions that make us human. Only the person who is authentically compassionate, that is, literally feels the suffering of others as their own, as a shared experience and inheritance, can be called an authentic human being in the highest spiritual sense of the word. Clytemnestra HAS NO PITY, on the contrary, she delights in the very violence she commits:

"She, after singing her funeral dirges like a swan, fell too, and lies there beside her lover. Delicious contentment that satisfies the pleasures of my loves!"

Clytemnestra triumphs as Iphigenia's mother, but fails as a queen, just as Agamemnon triumphs as a king but fails as Iphigenia's father. Clytemnestra does not care about the opinion of the chorus of elders, she does not care that Aegisthus establishes a tyranny and that the respect for majesty that Agamemnon did have for his subjects is transformed into fear, into threats of hunger and deprivation for those who oppose her.

It is true that Clytemnestra is justified (Justice in the most archaic sense of the word) in her revenge in the first act, but that does not give her the right to laugh, or even to feel proud of what she has just done. "For my own part, I boast of my work. If it were lawful to pour libations on a corpse, they would be just, most just on this occasion." Not even Odysseus, who murdered 108 people in his own house despite having received the approval of Zeus and Athena, takes delight in the slaughter, because "it is not godly to rejoice over the death of these men."

In the end, Clytemnestra does not seem to die for killing Agamemnon (that is Aegisthus). She dies for having killed Cassandra, as she herself prophesies:

"… when a woman pays for my life with her life, and a man atones with his blood for the blood of the unhappy husband of a bad wife… I ask you that my hateful murderers receive from my avengers the payment for the easy death of a defenseless slave."

And that is what leads Orestes to be one step closer to absolution than Clytemnestra will ever be. Orestes obeys Apollo's orders, but against his will, forced by fate, he finds neither pleasure nor satisfaction in matricide. It is the first step that will later lead him to be absolved by Athena. While Clytemnestra, even in death, has no compassion, she cannot forgive even her own son when he sees himself subjected to an unwanted fate.

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Reblog if you like the Kane Chronicles and think that they’re underrated

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gigizetz

Thalia and Melpomene (Greek muses of comedy and tragedy respectively

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This is for refrence sheet i´m working on

Atalante again yayyyy! She will have diffriend clothes i drew these to hide nudity. BECAUSE SOMEONE TOLD ME THEY DONT LIKE WHEN I DRAW BOOBIES WHAT (plus i want to share this on tik tok and there it´s big no no)

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lannegarrett

Writing Advice:

1. Write what's in your heart

2. Wait, hold up

3. THIS is what's in your heart?

4. Dear god

5. Your poor characters.

6. Why is there so much blood and death?

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reblogged

The Farnese Hercules has been an inspiration, even before warriormale, so I did a take on the pose with my version of Herakles.

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I can't over the fact that in Greek mythology when Hermes stolen Apollo's cattle he was only ONE DAY OLD! Imagine a f*cking baby stealing over FIFTY COWS in first day on earth.

And gets even better when Apollo discovers this and takes little Hermes to trial on Olympus.

All gods are laughing at the fact the culprit is just a little baby and Apollo is like:

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trojan war tumblr simulator

🌊 is-the-sea-wine-dark-today

YOU BET IT IS

#the wine dark sea!!!!!!!!!!!! #wine dark sea #wine dark sea posting

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✌🏻 ajax2electricboogaloo follow

why is achilles the only demigod who's Like That? like he's my boy but u don't see memnon or aeneas or sarpedon acting like him on the reg. why is he so maladjusted? like specifically? I saw his mother once and was so terrified by the sight of a goddess I flung myself to the ground and hid my face in the dirt til she left but I still don't think that accounts for it idk

🏘️ nobody1020

it's blonde man syndrome hope this helps

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⚔️ sonoftydeus

opening my askbox so that we can discuss strategies on taking troy!

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anonymous asked: we should all go home :)

⚔️ sonoftydeus answered:

FUCK OFF AGAMEMNON I WANT REAL SUGGESTIONS

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nobody1020 asked: do u like..... horses

⚔️ sonoftydeus answered:

odysseus do I even wanna know where this is going

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⌛ isthetrojanwaroveryet?

year 9, day 234: still no....

#all our admins keep DYING

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‼️ trojan-confessions follow

I think my wife might be sending me anon hate :/ keep getting asks like 'hope u die on the battlefield tomorrow silly slag' and 'menelaus should have curbstomped you' and in her big tapestry of warriors she made me look stupid

🐴 horsetaminghector follow

lmaooo is this paris??

🔮 cryinglikecassandra follow

kinda think helen should send MORE anon hate idk

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❓ myrmidons-confessions

I was the one who wrote the achilles/agamemnon 100k slowburn enemies to lovers rpf and put it on the group chat but now patroclus is calling me 'agachilles boy' and laughing about it and asking if I can proofread his mock bardic epic where all his dogs are heroes and killing people, so I fear I've made a mistake. I also can't look achilles in the eye anymore... but honestly I've never seen proof he can read so I might be safe

❓ myrmidons-confessions

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👑 kingofmycenae

👍🏻 ajaxthegreat

achilles is DEAD and ur posting CRAB RAVE?????

🏘️ nobody1020

I think that's why he's posting it ngl

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😹 deiphobus42069

imagine being the achaeans and your best warrior gets killed by PARIS, after everyone else had awesome deaths at the hands of sarpedon or hector or memnon... like that's literally so embarassing I just know achilles is fucking fuming down in hades rn. I bet the achaeans are gonna put around that paris was guided by apollo, or that paris happened to hit his only weak spot..... anything 2 try and make it less cringe.... lol lol we're popping the biggest bottles tonight. hope helen's there

🐆 leopardskiniscool

???????????????

#I mean. yeah. but also. #deiphobus wtf I thought we were chill

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#hope everyone can be normal about the outcome!!! :)

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🧑🏻 randotrojansoldier-deactivated-8578543

so excited to go back onto the field of battle tomorrow! sure hope I don't encounter any of the big-name heroes

🗣️ homer follow

I hope you don't too! I'm sure you'll do great!

🐎 antilochussss

not the direct address????

✌🏻 ajax2electricboogaloo

direct address got him :(

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💂🏻 trojanguardtales follow

fuck my job so much I hope that this wooden horse tribute to the gods turns out to have some guys inside or something just so I can DO something rather than standing here like a twat with my spear

💂🏻 trojanguardtales follow

by ares this can't be happening

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⚔️ sonoftydeus reblogged menelauskingofsparta

do NOT order achilles from shein!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#oh yeah #I was stuck with temu achilles in the trojan horse for six hours #and by hour two agamemnon had suggested killing and eating him #and odysseus was threatening to 'send him to meet his father' #and it's not even like there's any kleos in killing priam!!! #anti neoptolemus #neoptolemus defenders dni #vent tags

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