How to Move Out
August 12, 2022 5:53 PM Subscribe
What person or combination of people do I need to be speaking to to help me make a robust, long-term plan to live on my own?
I am in my late 30s but have always lived with my family (yes I am embarrassed and ashamed of myself, thank you). It has become increasingly clear that I need to move out of my home as the homeowner-relative is increasingly unable and unwilling to manage household finances. I pay this relative monthly rent and have increasingly stepped in to pay for emergency repairs and overdue bills. Relative hides their actual financial situation from me, gets angry when I pay bills for them without asking, and will refuse help until a crisis develops. To be clear, said emergency repairs and overdue bills affect everyone in the household: If the internet bill is not paid, the internet is turned off and cannot be used for work or leisure. If a plumber is not brought in to investigate a clogged drain, the shower cannot be used, etc. I have suggested and researched registered family financial advisors as well as funds and resources for persons their age who need help handing homeowner expenses. This information goes ignored. I have explained to them that I cannot hire or apply for assistance for them as the bills and house are not in my name. I don't feel like there is a lot more that I can do for them, though I expect that I will continue to need to help them financially now and in the future. And how can I ask them for help when they cannot help themselves? I bring all of this up to say that staying in this house is ultimately not an option, nor is this relative a source of support or assistance of any kind.
We live with one other sibling whose relationship has deteriorated with the homeowner--they will sometimes chip in or pay for repairs and bills, but sometimes not. They are not interested in moving out with me and refuse to participate in discussions about the long-term situation at the house, just like the homeowner.
So, here is what I have:
*A full time job that I like in my dream industry
*Things that need to be moved out of current place
*An understanding of my current budget
What I do not know is:
*Where to find an apartment that I can afford long term with a lifestyle that will allow for the fact that I am single, like to travel, etc.
*What my real expenses will be once I live alone, both short and long term, as future costs will include rent, insurance, utilities, additional transportation costs and other costs of living on one's own that I either do not pay now or share with the people I currently live with, as well as one-off purchases like movers, furniture, and housewares. (I understand how to shop frugally and save money on things.)
*What I will do in the event that I have a crisis of my own (rent is raised quickly and I must move in a hurry; I lose my job and am unable to find another; I become ill/injured and cannot work; etc.)
I do not have:
*A vehicle (this invalidates me for some living situations)
*Credit card debt (yay!)
*Friends or family I can stay with or who can help me while I "figure things out" (friends live in other states or countries, I have one other sibling in another state who I could live with for a VERY short period of time while looking for a place in their area; I would be required to arrive with a job offer IN HAND and be making daily reported progress towards finding housing)
*Much in the way of savings (due to home repairs and overdue bills as mentioned in the first paragraph)
I am terrified of:
*Homelessness (once I leave, there will be nowhere to return and no room for failure)
*Living with strangers
*Ending up in an unsafe living situation and being unable to leave
*Traveling and being able to see my friends in other states/countries becoming financially impossible because living independently is so expensive
*Being taken advantage of because I don't know what I'm doing (I am a woman and a person of color, so I assume that someone will try)
Things I have done/tried that have not helped so far:
*I went to a condo open house near my office. A signup sheet for follow-up calls and information was passed around, and when I filled out my information (which included my net salary), and when the realtor and a resident I'd been chatting with took a look at it they both made a strange face (the same sort of face) and immediately stopped talking with me. So I assume that I did not make enough to afford living anywhere in that building.
*Speaking to a licensed/registered financial planner on my own. Most reject me because I do not have tens of thousands of dollars in the bank. The one that did speak to me had little to offer besides "Get a roommate".
*Budgeting advice online (how do you plan for expenses you don't have yet?)
*Looking at apartments online (overwhelming. Impossible to tell how safe/clean any place is. Some places turn out to be scams. Lots of fine print on fees or other monthly accruals, so it is difficult to figure out how much it really costs to live somewhere. [ex. the rent in a place is listed as $900, but there is also a $50 monthly fee for managing trash/recycling. Why is this not included in the rent? Is the person who does not pay this fee expected to not generate trash? Or, rent in one building includes heat, but not in another, so obviously my utilities will be different across locations.] Rental offices want to know WHEN you want to move in when you inquire about vacancies in a building and are clearly not motivated if you have no move-in month/date or are "just looking".
*Therapy. Therapists have either pushed me in the direction of the financial planner (see above for how that turned out) or challenged the anxieties I expressed, but being told things like "you could lose your job and not find another right away, but that might not happen" made me feel like my very real, very possible concerns about homelessness and debt were not being taken seriously, or that the therapist had nothing to offer on that front.
*Getting a promotion and raise at work. The prices of everything have risen such that affording living on my own does not feel more possible than it did before the pandemic started.
So, what person or persons do I need to be talking to to generate the plan I need to feel confident about preparing to and then executing this move? I realize that most people are not going to be available to hold my hand and that I am going to need to do things myself or that concierge-style services that could take care of this for me will be very expensive. I need to define realistic goals for myself, and perhaps saving up to speak to a concierge is a worthwhile one. I don't know.
I know I need to grow up and I feel very humbled coming here to ask this question. I know many people have had to figure this out and much more at much younger ages, so chiding me for this is not helpful.
Thank you in advance for your time.
I am in my late 30s but have always lived with my family (yes I am embarrassed and ashamed of myself, thank you). It has become increasingly clear that I need to move out of my home as the homeowner-relative is increasingly unable and unwilling to manage household finances. I pay this relative monthly rent and have increasingly stepped in to pay for emergency repairs and overdue bills. Relative hides their actual financial situation from me, gets angry when I pay bills for them without asking, and will refuse help until a crisis develops. To be clear, said emergency repairs and overdue bills affect everyone in the household: If the internet bill is not paid, the internet is turned off and cannot be used for work or leisure. If a plumber is not brought in to investigate a clogged drain, the shower cannot be used, etc. I have suggested and researched registered family financial advisors as well as funds and resources for persons their age who need help handing homeowner expenses. This information goes ignored. I have explained to them that I cannot hire or apply for assistance for them as the bills and house are not in my name. I don't feel like there is a lot more that I can do for them, though I expect that I will continue to need to help them financially now and in the future. And how can I ask them for help when they cannot help themselves? I bring all of this up to say that staying in this house is ultimately not an option, nor is this relative a source of support or assistance of any kind.
We live with one other sibling whose relationship has deteriorated with the homeowner--they will sometimes chip in or pay for repairs and bills, but sometimes not. They are not interested in moving out with me and refuse to participate in discussions about the long-term situation at the house, just like the homeowner.
So, here is what I have:
*A full time job that I like in my dream industry
*Things that need to be moved out of current place
*An understanding of my current budget
What I do not know is:
*Where to find an apartment that I can afford long term with a lifestyle that will allow for the fact that I am single, like to travel, etc.
*What my real expenses will be once I live alone, both short and long term, as future costs will include rent, insurance, utilities, additional transportation costs and other costs of living on one's own that I either do not pay now or share with the people I currently live with, as well as one-off purchases like movers, furniture, and housewares. (I understand how to shop frugally and save money on things.)
*What I will do in the event that I have a crisis of my own (rent is raised quickly and I must move in a hurry; I lose my job and am unable to find another; I become ill/injured and cannot work; etc.)
I do not have:
*A vehicle (this invalidates me for some living situations)
*Credit card debt (yay!)
*Friends or family I can stay with or who can help me while I "figure things out" (friends live in other states or countries, I have one other sibling in another state who I could live with for a VERY short period of time while looking for a place in their area; I would be required to arrive with a job offer IN HAND and be making daily reported progress towards finding housing)
*Much in the way of savings (due to home repairs and overdue bills as mentioned in the first paragraph)
I am terrified of:
*Homelessness (once I leave, there will be nowhere to return and no room for failure)
*Living with strangers
*Ending up in an unsafe living situation and being unable to leave
*Traveling and being able to see my friends in other states/countries becoming financially impossible because living independently is so expensive
*Being taken advantage of because I don't know what I'm doing (I am a woman and a person of color, so I assume that someone will try)
Things I have done/tried that have not helped so far:
*I went to a condo open house near my office. A signup sheet for follow-up calls and information was passed around, and when I filled out my information (which included my net salary), and when the realtor and a resident I'd been chatting with took a look at it they both made a strange face (the same sort of face) and immediately stopped talking with me. So I assume that I did not make enough to afford living anywhere in that building.
*Speaking to a licensed/registered financial planner on my own. Most reject me because I do not have tens of thousands of dollars in the bank. The one that did speak to me had little to offer besides "Get a roommate".
*Budgeting advice online (how do you plan for expenses you don't have yet?)
*Looking at apartments online (overwhelming. Impossible to tell how safe/clean any place is. Some places turn out to be scams. Lots of fine print on fees or other monthly accruals, so it is difficult to figure out how much it really costs to live somewhere. [ex. the rent in a place is listed as $900, but there is also a $50 monthly fee for managing trash/recycling. Why is this not included in the rent? Is the person who does not pay this fee expected to not generate trash? Or, rent in one building includes heat, but not in another, so obviously my utilities will be different across locations.] Rental offices want to know WHEN you want to move in when you inquire about vacancies in a building and are clearly not motivated if you have no move-in month/date or are "just looking".
*Therapy. Therapists have either pushed me in the direction of the financial planner (see above for how that turned out) or challenged the anxieties I expressed, but being told things like "you could lose your job and not find another right away, but that might not happen" made me feel like my very real, very possible concerns about homelessness and debt were not being taken seriously, or that the therapist had nothing to offer on that front.
*Getting a promotion and raise at work. The prices of everything have risen such that affording living on my own does not feel more possible than it did before the pandemic started.
So, what person or persons do I need to be talking to to generate the plan I need to feel confident about preparing to and then executing this move? I realize that most people are not going to be available to hold my hand and that I am going to need to do things myself or that concierge-style services that could take care of this for me will be very expensive. I need to define realistic goals for myself, and perhaps saving up to speak to a concierge is a worthwhile one. I don't know.
I know I need to grow up and I feel very humbled coming here to ask this question. I know many people have had to figure this out and much more at much younger ages, so chiding me for this is not helpful.
Thank you in advance for your time.
1. First of all, if you're not already, deduct the extra bills and expenses from the monthly rent that you're paying the relative. This includes retroactively.
2. You're already managing very well in a chaotic situation. This is a good sign that you can handle whatever comes up in a new and better living situation.
3. Look for professionally managed apartment complexes. They are less likely to have arbitrary evictions for owner move-ins or property sales.
posted by dum spiro spero at 6:13 PM on August 12, 2022 [5 favorites]
2. You're already managing very well in a chaotic situation. This is a good sign that you can handle whatever comes up in a new and better living situation.
3. Look for professionally managed apartment complexes. They are less likely to have arbitrary evictions for owner move-ins or property sales.
posted by dum spiro spero at 6:13 PM on August 12, 2022 [5 favorites]
Adding to all of the good advice above:
Consider living in a place a little smaller and a little cheaper than your ideal apartment the first year. That gives you a little extra financial wiggle room as you get used to balancing everything.
posted by Silvery Fish at 6:53 PM on August 12, 2022 [12 favorites]
Consider living in a place a little smaller and a little cheaper than your ideal apartment the first year. That gives you a little extra financial wiggle room as you get used to balancing everything.
posted by Silvery Fish at 6:53 PM on August 12, 2022 [12 favorites]
Assuming you live in a place with a relatively hardy population, if there's a subreddit for your general area you could ask there what people feel like is a workable budget and expectations for expenses. People ask about this stuff all the time in the Los Angeles subreddits, anyway, and I assume it happens elsewhere.
posted by Lyn Never at 6:53 PM on August 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Lyn Never at 6:53 PM on August 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
Regarding moving expenses, many competent movers have "ballpark" fees they can quote more or less on demand, based on the approximate size of materials you are moving. So, if you have your own bedroom but most of the other materials in the house are not yours, then you'd describe your living arrangement and they'll say "eh, it'll be roughly $X". You will need to box up your stuff (anything that fits in a box should go in a box) on your own. You should also check reviews online, because some movers suck.
...also, IMHO, for your first apartment you should probably be looking at a "studio" apartment, where the bedroom and the main room are the same. They're usually quite a bit cheaper.
posted by aramaic at 6:58 PM on August 12, 2022
...also, IMHO, for your first apartment you should probably be looking at a "studio" apartment, where the bedroom and the main room are the same. They're usually quite a bit cheaper.
posted by aramaic at 6:58 PM on August 12, 2022
In terms of “who to talk to,” this feels more like a coach role than a planner role. You might have some luck looking for people who do ADHD coaching — a lot of that work is “helping people make robust long-term plans” about very mundane life stuff like work, living situations, etc. In this case your deficit is not in executive function but in life experience; I think that’s close enough to make this a possibly-useful person to you.
posted by sixswitch at 7:07 PM on August 12, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by sixswitch at 7:07 PM on August 12, 2022 [4 favorites]
Combining some ideas above: for the first year or so, a studio apartment in a "better" area is better than a roomy apartment in a "less good area". If you're in a job you like in your dream industry, you're likely to do well and your salary will increase over time. Save on rent now, to be able to rent a better place later.
posted by TimHare at 7:09 PM on August 12, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by TimHare at 7:09 PM on August 12, 2022 [6 favorites]
I don't think you need to be talking to anyone, planning for this is something you are absolutely capable of doing on your own! You've already thought of a lot of the issues, the rest is just a continuation of that, a budget with some wiggle room, some emergency savings, and (this may be the hardest part) some willingness to compromise on your wants vs needs. For example - living alone is, in most cases, a want, not a need. Same as for travelling. I know these are important for your mental health, but there might be alternatives that make not having those things palatable. There's a huge, huge array of options between "living on my own and travelling regularly" and homelessness!! Maybe you do need to sacrifice something right now to get out of your current situation, but that doesn't mean you're sacrificing it forever!
There's a ton of budget calculators online - this is just one I found with some googling (so I cannot vouch for its quality)
Depending on the rental market in your area, apartment hunting just sucks. Check craigslist, facebook marketplace, whatever the online source is in your area. It sucks for everyone, so knowing that you change your frame of mind a bit. Be prepared to trust your gut, but make decisions quickly. After you've seen a few places you'll start to get a feeling of what are your must haves vs "meh, i can deal" and what you can afford vs what you cannot. Everyone's priorities are different.
There will be things that don't go according to plan. Thats ok - you will have an emergency fund, and you're a smart, resourceful person.
You can absolutely do this. It's going to be scary at first but you can do it. ask.mefi is here for all the questions you have along the way!
posted by cgg at 7:24 PM on August 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
There's a ton of budget calculators online - this is just one I found with some googling (so I cannot vouch for its quality)
Depending on the rental market in your area, apartment hunting just sucks. Check craigslist, facebook marketplace, whatever the online source is in your area. It sucks for everyone, so knowing that you change your frame of mind a bit. Be prepared to trust your gut, but make decisions quickly. After you've seen a few places you'll start to get a feeling of what are your must haves vs "meh, i can deal" and what you can afford vs what you cannot. Everyone's priorities are different.
There will be things that don't go according to plan. Thats ok - you will have an emergency fund, and you're a smart, resourceful person.
You can absolutely do this. It's going to be scary at first but you can do it. ask.mefi is here for all the questions you have along the way!
posted by cgg at 7:24 PM on August 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
You're going to get a lot of other advice, but I just wanted to add something to think about.
Is this relative older? Is this relative's actions - or lack thereof - putting their health and safety at risk?
If so... or if I didn't ask the exact right question, but I'm getting somewhere in the ballpark... you might want to do some checking in that regard, especially if you expect to continue to have to contribute to this household even if you leave it. Whether that's the person's doctor, the local or state elder organization, etc... because it's not unusual for this sort of behavior to start - or significantly worsen - as a person grows older.
posted by stormyteal at 8:48 PM on August 12, 2022 [5 favorites]
Is this relative older? Is this relative's actions - or lack thereof - putting their health and safety at risk?
If so... or if I didn't ask the exact right question, but I'm getting somewhere in the ballpark... you might want to do some checking in that regard, especially if you expect to continue to have to contribute to this household even if you leave it. Whether that's the person's doctor, the local or state elder organization, etc... because it's not unusual for this sort of behavior to start - or significantly worsen - as a person grows older.
posted by stormyteal at 8:48 PM on August 12, 2022 [5 favorites]
the reason you're having trouble finding someone to talk to about this is that this isn't something more people hire help for. I'm unaware of a class of professional for this sort of thing.
A few years ago the standard advice was to have your rent be no more than 1/3 of your gross income... a more nuanced discussion is here.
The way people avoid homelessness in the event of being fired is - in general - some combination of (1) spending less than they earn, saving up an emergency fund in a savings account (2) developing professional skills and a professional network that will yield a new job quickly if one is needed and (3) having robust social ties - friendships or family relationships - that can serve as a safety net source of loans or shelter if the shit really hits the fan.
In many expensive cities it is typical for young professionals to have roommates in order to be able to afford the rent. Roommates don't have to be terrible; it can be an asset to have someone else around, if you get along.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:54 PM on August 12, 2022 [8 favorites]
A few years ago the standard advice was to have your rent be no more than 1/3 of your gross income... a more nuanced discussion is here.
The way people avoid homelessness in the event of being fired is - in general - some combination of (1) spending less than they earn, saving up an emergency fund in a savings account (2) developing professional skills and a professional network that will yield a new job quickly if one is needed and (3) having robust social ties - friendships or family relationships - that can serve as a safety net source of loans or shelter if the shit really hits the fan.
In many expensive cities it is typical for young professionals to have roommates in order to be able to afford the rent. Roommates don't have to be terrible; it can be an asset to have someone else around, if you get along.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:54 PM on August 12, 2022 [8 favorites]
Your town's Reddit community probably has the ins and outs of which apartment complexes are terrible and which ones are okay. Colleagues and IRL acquaintances are good people to ask if they like their apartment complex. Also college alumni groups for your city might be good people to reach out to.
Unlike your current situation, a competent land lord will be responsible for maintenance without any additional $$$ from you.
Having at least a 3-6 month emergency fund for yourself, will provide some peace of mind. Disability insurance is also a thing, but may not be the highest priority in your situation. You are in "blue" city in a "blue" state, so I would expect there to be some level of tenant protection laws.
For your consideration, a "side hustle" which provides an additional stream of income will help you accomplish your financial goals sooner.
When looking at apartment complexes tell the people in charge that you are targeting an October 1st (or whatever seems reasonable) move in date. This is a totally made up date. Your plans may change. It's okay. They just want to show you apartment complexes that would be available at the right period of time.
Also there's a reason why roommates are a thing. It isn't as sketchy as you may think (really!). But there are certainly legitimate reasons why someone who is in the financial position to not have roommates may choose not to.
I wouldn't look for logic where there is none, but apartments vary in what is covered in base rent because utilities are structured in different ways in different buildings. Not all apartment complexes have separate meters per residence for different utilities, for example.
posted by oceano at 9:15 PM on August 12, 2022
Unlike your current situation, a competent land lord will be responsible for maintenance without any additional $$$ from you.
Having at least a 3-6 month emergency fund for yourself, will provide some peace of mind. Disability insurance is also a thing, but may not be the highest priority in your situation. You are in "blue" city in a "blue" state, so I would expect there to be some level of tenant protection laws.
For your consideration, a "side hustle" which provides an additional stream of income will help you accomplish your financial goals sooner.
When looking at apartment complexes tell the people in charge that you are targeting an October 1st (or whatever seems reasonable) move in date. This is a totally made up date. Your plans may change. It's okay. They just want to show you apartment complexes that would be available at the right period of time.
Also there's a reason why roommates are a thing. It isn't as sketchy as you may think (really!). But there are certainly legitimate reasons why someone who is in the financial position to not have roommates may choose not to.
I wouldn't look for logic where there is none, but apartments vary in what is covered in base rent because utilities are structured in different ways in different buildings. Not all apartment complexes have separate meters per residence for different utilities, for example.
posted by oceano at 9:15 PM on August 12, 2022
Having rented for many years, I have lived in various places including ones that were terrible in many ways, ones with terrible roommates, and ones with terrible landlords who took advantage of me (sometimes all three at once!)
Even then, it's not all that awful, or let's say it doesn't sound all that much worse or more stressful than your existing living situation. Like, one of my worst landlords was in charge of paying utilities and sometimes just didn't and then things got cut off, just like in your situation. Another kept putting off extremely necessary repairs. Those are some classic terrible landlord situations!
Lousy living situations are obviously something to try to avoid, but most people experience at least a few in their lives. Have faith that you're stronger than you think and that you'll be able to deal with these things if they should come up. As you have been.
You don't say how much you earn compared to local rents or how much you're currently paying in rent, but if (as it sounds) you're paying a relatively low amount, then you have some time to save up, say, 3-6 months' living expenses (which is more buffer than many people have). Credit card debt is pretty awful but it's also a worst-case buffer that you've got for peace of mind. Living with roommates can be very bad but also, as people have said, very good (and hey, you're already living with two roommates you have stressful conflicts with!)
You say you don't have local friends, but do you have any local acquaintances and coworkers, or are you part of any local communities? If you have any acquaintances, (a) consider that as a possible emergency buffer in case your living situation is untenable (not a great option or always possible, but more people step in to help in emergencies than you'd think and since you seem to be scared of possible emergencies I think it helps to realize you've got more buffers than you probably imagine); and (b) ask them for housing recommendations, mover recommendations, and so on.
(Long term: consider ways to get more involved with local friendships or communities, or alternatively moving away to a location where you have more friends -- for lots of reasons, not just emergency assistance.)
what person or persons do I need to be talking to to generate the plan I need to feel confident about preparing to and then executing this move
I know you're embarrassed about this, but I think you should treat the people you know as a resource -- coworkers, local acquaintances, and your friends in other areas. You have no need to be embarrassed: you haven't just been living with your family, you've been financially supporting them (and probably taking care of them in other ways) and doing other adult things, and living with family has become much more common in countries like the US than it used to be over the past 10 years or so.
You could also try posting a meeting up here (or elsewhere) to start meeting more local contacts.
Beyond that, I'd take the advice above about estimating expenses, add in your annual travel expenses, save up a reasonable (but not insane) buffer, look at places that don't stretch your budget, and be prepared to come across a bunch of duds before you find something decent. Remember that you can often live very happily in places that aren't picture-perfect or as big or amenity-heavy as you'd like. Test out faucets and toilets, check windows and walls for signs of water damage, talk with people in other apartments in the building if possible, walk around the area at night and see what it's like. If it's a neighborhood you're not familiar with, try asking some local people (I'm a woman and have asked women on the street and women behind the counter at local stores) what the area is like. Depending on what areas you're interested in you might be able to find "For Rent" signs just walking around. If you've got time, try walking around the building on, say, a Friday night to see what the noise level is. (But there will usually be more noise in a shared building than you're probably used to, regardless of where you live, so that's just something to be ready for and make peace with.)
Furniture and so on can be gotten second-hand and often for free, and if your budget is stretched and you'd rather get new things, remember that furniture isn't actually necessary - you can get it bit by bit as your budget affords. I did this once, sleeping on the floor before eventually getting a bed and then, little by little, other stuff. Not the most fun but very much doable, and I had other priorities.
One more piece of advice is to be familiar with the local tenant laws (as oceano mentioned), and as a general practice try to communicate with landlords in writing (or confirm in writing things you agreed about verbally) regarding any important issues.
Finally, praemunire's advice about tradeoffs is, alas, exactly right and fundamental.
posted by trig at 11:48 PM on August 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
Even then, it's not all that awful, or let's say it doesn't sound all that much worse or more stressful than your existing living situation. Like, one of my worst landlords was in charge of paying utilities and sometimes just didn't and then things got cut off, just like in your situation. Another kept putting off extremely necessary repairs. Those are some classic terrible landlord situations!
Lousy living situations are obviously something to try to avoid, but most people experience at least a few in their lives. Have faith that you're stronger than you think and that you'll be able to deal with these things if they should come up. As you have been.
You don't say how much you earn compared to local rents or how much you're currently paying in rent, but if (as it sounds) you're paying a relatively low amount, then you have some time to save up, say, 3-6 months' living expenses (which is more buffer than many people have). Credit card debt is pretty awful but it's also a worst-case buffer that you've got for peace of mind. Living with roommates can be very bad but also, as people have said, very good (and hey, you're already living with two roommates you have stressful conflicts with!)
You say you don't have local friends, but do you have any local acquaintances and coworkers, or are you part of any local communities? If you have any acquaintances, (a) consider that as a possible emergency buffer in case your living situation is untenable (not a great option or always possible, but more people step in to help in emergencies than you'd think and since you seem to be scared of possible emergencies I think it helps to realize you've got more buffers than you probably imagine); and (b) ask them for housing recommendations, mover recommendations, and so on.
(Long term: consider ways to get more involved with local friendships or communities, or alternatively moving away to a location where you have more friends -- for lots of reasons, not just emergency assistance.)
what person or persons do I need to be talking to to generate the plan I need to feel confident about preparing to and then executing this move
I know you're embarrassed about this, but I think you should treat the people you know as a resource -- coworkers, local acquaintances, and your friends in other areas. You have no need to be embarrassed: you haven't just been living with your family, you've been financially supporting them (and probably taking care of them in other ways) and doing other adult things, and living with family has become much more common in countries like the US than it used to be over the past 10 years or so.
You could also try posting a meeting up here (or elsewhere) to start meeting more local contacts.
Beyond that, I'd take the advice above about estimating expenses, add in your annual travel expenses, save up a reasonable (but not insane) buffer, look at places that don't stretch your budget, and be prepared to come across a bunch of duds before you find something decent. Remember that you can often live very happily in places that aren't picture-perfect or as big or amenity-heavy as you'd like. Test out faucets and toilets, check windows and walls for signs of water damage, talk with people in other apartments in the building if possible, walk around the area at night and see what it's like. If it's a neighborhood you're not familiar with, try asking some local people (I'm a woman and have asked women on the street and women behind the counter at local stores) what the area is like. Depending on what areas you're interested in you might be able to find "For Rent" signs just walking around. If you've got time, try walking around the building on, say, a Friday night to see what the noise level is. (But there will usually be more noise in a shared building than you're probably used to, regardless of where you live, so that's just something to be ready for and make peace with.)
Furniture and so on can be gotten second-hand and often for free, and if your budget is stretched and you'd rather get new things, remember that furniture isn't actually necessary - you can get it bit by bit as your budget affords. I did this once, sleeping on the floor before eventually getting a bed and then, little by little, other stuff. Not the most fun but very much doable, and I had other priorities.
One more piece of advice is to be familiar with the local tenant laws (as oceano mentioned), and as a general practice try to communicate with landlords in writing (or confirm in writing things you agreed about verbally) regarding any important issues.
Finally, praemunire's advice about tradeoffs is, alas, exactly right and fundamental.
posted by trig at 11:48 PM on August 12, 2022 [2 favorites]
I know you're embarrassed about this, but I think you should treat the people you know as a resource -- coworkers, local acquaintances, and your friends in other areas
Absolutely. If I were you, I would ask coworkers if, for instance, I could show them apartment listings and get their opinions. You want people who live in apartments themselves and have an idea what it's like locally.
Plus, once people know you're looking they will usually let you know if they know of an opportunity. A lot of good living opportunities are passed on "under the table", as a friend of a friend thing.
Please don't be embarassed. This is the kind of thing you only know how to do once you've already done it. Some people start later than others. There's no shame in that. Plus, your family of origin isn't giving you any support, so you're missing a resource other people have.
posted by Omnomnom at 12:13 AM on August 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
Lots of great advice here, I just want to push the roommate angle. I lived with roommates well into my 30s and if you find the right fit, it can feel better than living alone. If you look at Craigslist for rooms for rent, you can go check out places that in many cases will be more furnished, rent will be much lower, and you can have someone to figure out utilities and other concerns with; usually all utilities will be set up in advance. This is great for your first time living away from family; it’s way less pressure to buy a mattress for the floor than to try to furnish an entire apartment on your own. Plus you can see the cleanliness situation, they can tell you what the landlord is actually like, etc. And it’s nice to have someone to talk to in the evenings. I’ve made lots of close friends through roommate relationships, and also had some not-great living situations. If you decide to investigate this route, know that there are tons of different ways to do this (sharing dishes and food vs everyone keeping everything in their bedrooms, having chore wheels vs “everyone just pitch in” vs hiring a cleaner, having a communal fun vibe vs everyone keeping to themselves, etc etc etc) so you should expect to think about what kind of living situation would feel good to you, and then tour apartments till you find people/spaces who seem like a good fit.
It can be a lot less of a long-term investment - some places are sublets, some are month-to-month rent, which can be cool because you can move around a bit till you find your best fit. You don’t have to get it right on your first try! Consider it like travelling, but within your city :)
Good luck! You can do this.
posted by andreapandrea at 12:30 AM on August 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
It can be a lot less of a long-term investment - some places are sublets, some are month-to-month rent, which can be cool because you can move around a bit till you find your best fit. You don’t have to get it right on your first try! Consider it like travelling, but within your city :)
Good luck! You can do this.
posted by andreapandrea at 12:30 AM on August 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
Seconding all the advice that the commentators above have given on estimating 30% of your salary for rent, then pricing out bills and an emergency savings fund.
I also want to give advice as kind of a late bloomer in moving out myself- my first flat was in kind of a rowdy neighbourhood with neighbours who a police and ambulance came for at 12 midnight, part of the bathroom ceiling fell in, and one of the tenants would leave the front door wide open "for a breeze". I accidentally locked myself out three times, got overdrawn a few times on my salary thanks to lack of attention, and missed a spot in thr kitchen where mushrooms started growing. And I....survived! I had enough money (literally like £450) that I could move if I needed to, I had minimal stuff so moving was cheap, I hung in there and totted it up to experience, and I got to my next flat, which was nicer.
I then had roommate conflict as documented on ask Mefi and it was rough and unpleasant but I learnt to kind of adult a bit more about it and roommate moved out and me and spouse moved into a smaller less nice flat which let us save more.
So...talking to your coworkers and letting them know you're looking to move is a great idea, especially if someone or a friend of a friend is moving out of a nice house share situation and you have a semi known quantity to move into, or even knowing more about neighbourhoods and letting agencies. I definitely wish I'd done that! But I think also that you may find that...if you are living with people you don't like, you can move. If you are living somewhere uncomfortable and rickety, you can move. And asking your friends in other states their experiences and how they might be able to help or cheerlead or look at listing online with you is a good plan; people want to help. I can promise I was more disorganised than you (above minimum wage by not that much, travelling monthly to visit friends, undiagnosed untreated ADHD ) and I got through that time, and I can see from how well organised this question is that you are Better Prepared Than Me, A Conplete Naif Then. Lean on the people who do care about you, and remember that you are surviving a hella stressful living situation right now and you have more inner resources than you know
posted by MarianHalcombe at 1:56 AM on August 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
I also want to give advice as kind of a late bloomer in moving out myself- my first flat was in kind of a rowdy neighbourhood with neighbours who a police and ambulance came for at 12 midnight, part of the bathroom ceiling fell in, and one of the tenants would leave the front door wide open "for a breeze". I accidentally locked myself out three times, got overdrawn a few times on my salary thanks to lack of attention, and missed a spot in thr kitchen where mushrooms started growing. And I....survived! I had enough money (literally like £450) that I could move if I needed to, I had minimal stuff so moving was cheap, I hung in there and totted it up to experience, and I got to my next flat, which was nicer.
I then had roommate conflict as documented on ask Mefi and it was rough and unpleasant but I learnt to kind of adult a bit more about it and roommate moved out and me and spouse moved into a smaller less nice flat which let us save more.
So...talking to your coworkers and letting them know you're looking to move is a great idea, especially if someone or a friend of a friend is moving out of a nice house share situation and you have a semi known quantity to move into, or even knowing more about neighbourhoods and letting agencies. I definitely wish I'd done that! But I think also that you may find that...if you are living with people you don't like, you can move. If you are living somewhere uncomfortable and rickety, you can move. And asking your friends in other states their experiences and how they might be able to help or cheerlead or look at listing online with you is a good plan; people want to help. I can promise I was more disorganised than you (above minimum wage by not that much, travelling monthly to visit friends, undiagnosed untreated ADHD ) and I got through that time, and I can see from how well organised this question is that you are Better Prepared Than Me, A Conplete Naif Then. Lean on the people who do care about you, and remember that you are surviving a hella stressful living situation right now and you have more inner resources than you know
posted by MarianHalcombe at 1:56 AM on August 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
There isn’t a person or persons. You basically do soul searching and research areas and work through the process until you have a place.
A few thoughts. When I first lived independently the computation went something like this: net pay less rent/mortgage, less utilities, less car payment/fuel/insurance*, less food budget=budget for any discretionary expenditure including clothes, socialising and travel. And let’s just say for a few years, as I was establishing myself in the world of work, travel consisted of one/two budget airline flights per year, at antisocial times of day visiting friends and staying at their homes…when living with family I had money for frequent manicures and much more socialising than after I moved into my first few apartments.
*I needed my car for work
What that means is that unless you’ve saved up for moving expenses in the widest sense (including things like buying kitchen stuff, all the spices, cupboard staples, furnishings, plants etc), you may not travel in the year after you move. Your discretionary funds will go towards all these other costs. But that’s fine, they are one-off expenses so this is temporary.
One of my best friends spent all of the pandemic saving aggressively to bolster her down payment. Last month, she bought a house in a very expensive area. Despite making v good money she is now ‘house poor’ and has informed me she won’t be travelling for the next couple of years. Her discretionary funds go towards paint, a ladder, furniture and furnishings, landscaping, a kitchen remodel etc. As she is my travel buddy, I’m told I am welcome to vacation in her city and her spare bedroom for the next couple of years or I’ll have travel alone/with other people.
If people without sign. savings want to avoid that, they live with roommates. Alternatively, they allow themselves one trip with clearly defined budget and put that on an interest free credit card and pay it off over the interest free period. In that case, the above calculation includes the cc repayment reducing the discretionary bucket further. That’s what I used to do but I was in a country with good social security provisions. I was also in the early stages of a professional career so I knew my pay was going to go up not down. Doesn’t sound like that’s within your risk preferences but that’s ok. As your finances settle down post move you can start to travel again.
As a thought experiment create a spreadsheet and figure out how much rent, food and emergency bills you’ve been covering over the last couple of years. Compare that to your expected outgoings moving. You may well be no worse off or be better off without these unplanned emergencies.
As to how to find a place, start by figuring out how you want to live, what amenities do you want in walking distance, cycle distance etc. Also talk to your co-workers about where they live and commute from. What do they (dis)/like about their neighbourhoods, how do they commute how bad/good is their commute and would that work for you?
That should give you areas to explore and you compare rent per rental listings there to your budget. That may show that you can’t afford the area living alone. That means you consider roommates or revisit your list of amenities and figure out which are critical and which are nice to have.
And you do a lot of viewings to help you calibrate. Look at apartments that meet all your criteria and then at some with compromises. Walk round these neighbourhoods. Fine tune. Repeat as necessary.
It’s very much a process, it can be stressful but for most people it works out fine on balance. If you really find you dislike where you end up you are able to move again later. And that time round you’ll have less of the one off expenses because you’ve got these things now. More to pack up though.
posted by koahiatamadl at 3:56 AM on August 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
A few thoughts. When I first lived independently the computation went something like this: net pay less rent/mortgage, less utilities, less car payment/fuel/insurance*, less food budget=budget for any discretionary expenditure including clothes, socialising and travel. And let’s just say for a few years, as I was establishing myself in the world of work, travel consisted of one/two budget airline flights per year, at antisocial times of day visiting friends and staying at their homes…when living with family I had money for frequent manicures and much more socialising than after I moved into my first few apartments.
*I needed my car for work
What that means is that unless you’ve saved up for moving expenses in the widest sense (including things like buying kitchen stuff, all the spices, cupboard staples, furnishings, plants etc), you may not travel in the year after you move. Your discretionary funds will go towards all these other costs. But that’s fine, they are one-off expenses so this is temporary.
One of my best friends spent all of the pandemic saving aggressively to bolster her down payment. Last month, she bought a house in a very expensive area. Despite making v good money she is now ‘house poor’ and has informed me she won’t be travelling for the next couple of years. Her discretionary funds go towards paint, a ladder, furniture and furnishings, landscaping, a kitchen remodel etc. As she is my travel buddy, I’m told I am welcome to vacation in her city and her spare bedroom for the next couple of years or I’ll have travel alone/with other people.
If people without sign. savings want to avoid that, they live with roommates. Alternatively, they allow themselves one trip with clearly defined budget and put that on an interest free credit card and pay it off over the interest free period. In that case, the above calculation includes the cc repayment reducing the discretionary bucket further. That’s what I used to do but I was in a country with good social security provisions. I was also in the early stages of a professional career so I knew my pay was going to go up not down. Doesn’t sound like that’s within your risk preferences but that’s ok. As your finances settle down post move you can start to travel again.
As a thought experiment create a spreadsheet and figure out how much rent, food and emergency bills you’ve been covering over the last couple of years. Compare that to your expected outgoings moving. You may well be no worse off or be better off without these unplanned emergencies.
As to how to find a place, start by figuring out how you want to live, what amenities do you want in walking distance, cycle distance etc. Also talk to your co-workers about where they live and commute from. What do they (dis)/like about their neighbourhoods, how do they commute how bad/good is their commute and would that work for you?
That should give you areas to explore and you compare rent per rental listings there to your budget. That may show that you can’t afford the area living alone. That means you consider roommates or revisit your list of amenities and figure out which are critical and which are nice to have.
And you do a lot of viewings to help you calibrate. Look at apartments that meet all your criteria and then at some with compromises. Walk round these neighbourhoods. Fine tune. Repeat as necessary.
It’s very much a process, it can be stressful but for most people it works out fine on balance. If you really find you dislike where you end up you are able to move again later. And that time round you’ll have less of the one off expenses because you’ve got these things now. More to pack up though.
posted by koahiatamadl at 3:56 AM on August 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
Search out the biggest real estate companies in your area, look at photos for a woman of color. This is not a sure shot but it is possible that this person could help you find little known programs that could get you home ownership. For example, I was a widow at 30 and I don't know how I found this but I applied through the USDA for a rural housing loan and I got it. I did have perfect credit. There are programs out there. Real estate agents should know how to find them. Consider Habitat for Humanity. Volunteering here, can get you with the right people who LOVE to help people just like you get into your own home.
As a woman who was single for a large part of my life I have to agree with your fears. They are real. Roommates would be terrifying for me. So many people are screwed up right now. So much drama. I'm sorry to say that but I have enough problems. So if I were you I would try to buy. Renting is pretty unpredictable right now. Where I live people are being kicked out of their rentals so the landlord can Airbnb the property. Renting is totally unstable where I Live. And very expensive. Buying would be cheaper and stable if you can swing it..
If you do go this route you should possibly try buying a duplex because you can live in one side and rent the other. But always use a rental manager because being a landlord is horrible.
And, to not have to budget for food which is very difficult, volunteer one day a week (maybe half a day?) at a food bank. I did this and I was just talking to a friend, a single woman, and we both did this for the good of our community but a side benefit is we could take home food every week. I didn't know other people did this but my friend said, yes, all the volunteers take food home. Ask your food bank if they allow volunteers to take food home, if they do this can really help your budget and take the worry out of having to plan for food costs which is stressful.
If you do contact a real estate agent and they are not helpful, try another.
I would not for a minute feel embarrassed for the situation you are in.
I have gone a long way in my life by taking this advice for single women "buy your own home and work in the food industry". What this means to me is - buy your own home - however small and humble - to avoid toxic roommate situations and asshole landlords. then work in the food industry so your food needs are always covered because if you work at a restaurant for example, you always get free meals.
posted by cda at 4:47 AM on August 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
As a woman who was single for a large part of my life I have to agree with your fears. They are real. Roommates would be terrifying for me. So many people are screwed up right now. So much drama. I'm sorry to say that but I have enough problems. So if I were you I would try to buy. Renting is pretty unpredictable right now. Where I live people are being kicked out of their rentals so the landlord can Airbnb the property. Renting is totally unstable where I Live. And very expensive. Buying would be cheaper and stable if you can swing it..
If you do go this route you should possibly try buying a duplex because you can live in one side and rent the other. But always use a rental manager because being a landlord is horrible.
And, to not have to budget for food which is very difficult, volunteer one day a week (maybe half a day?) at a food bank. I did this and I was just talking to a friend, a single woman, and we both did this for the good of our community but a side benefit is we could take home food every week. I didn't know other people did this but my friend said, yes, all the volunteers take food home. Ask your food bank if they allow volunteers to take food home, if they do this can really help your budget and take the worry out of having to plan for food costs which is stressful.
If you do contact a real estate agent and they are not helpful, try another.
I would not for a minute feel embarrassed for the situation you are in.
I have gone a long way in my life by taking this advice for single women "buy your own home and work in the food industry". What this means to me is - buy your own home - however small and humble - to avoid toxic roommate situations and asshole landlords. then work in the food industry so your food needs are always covered because if you work at a restaurant for example, you always get free meals.
posted by cda at 4:47 AM on August 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
You've had a lot of great advice above, and as long as your salary provides a reasonable living wage you can definitely do this. One thing I would add is that if your rent and bills will be a lot more than you're paying now, it would be a good idea to get a feel for the lifestyle you can have based on what's left over. So while you search for an apartment, try an experiment. Once you've figured out your expenses using phunimmee's method, put that money aside - subtract what you're paying out now and put the rest in the bank but pretend it's spent. How does it feel going through the month on less disposable income than you're used to? Have you been able to save? Are you making cutbacks that you think you can live with long term? You will almost certainly have to modify your lifestyle in order to live independently. And by trying this experiment you'll be increasing your savings which is an added bonus.
You haven't mentioned savings in your question and I hope you have some, as that will help you a great deal to feel secure and cushion anything that needs cushioning going forward. By the way it's great you don't plan to get a car - those can eat up your money like there's no tomorrow so nice work figuring out how to live without one!
posted by hazyjane at 5:18 AM on August 13, 2022
You haven't mentioned savings in your question and I hope you have some, as that will help you a great deal to feel secure and cushion anything that needs cushioning going forward. By the way it's great you don't plan to get a car - those can eat up your money like there's no tomorrow so nice work figuring out how to live without one!
posted by hazyjane at 5:18 AM on August 13, 2022
This is not a direct answer to your question, and please don't take this the wrong way, but have you considered that you might be autistic? I ask this only because the depth and comprehensiveness of the worries described in your question remind me a lot of the depth and comprehensiveness of my concerns about similar things (how can I make a decision on X when there are still all of these uncertainties????), and I was diagnosed as autistic at age 47, it having never even crossed my mind as a possibility up until about two years previously. Supporting evidence includes the feelings of embarrassment about not having done the things that other people just seem to be able to do without even thinking about it or doing any kind of in-depth planning. Differences in nonverbal communication may also explain why doctors don't seem to take your medical concerns seriously (plus, autistic fatigue is a thing, ask me how I know). And having to deal with other people (like your former clients) seeming to be unable or unwilling to follow simple, clear and explicit instructions drives me up the wall, too.
posted by heatherlogan at 7:53 AM on August 13, 2022
posted by heatherlogan at 7:53 AM on August 13, 2022
- if you don't have good credit or any credit, or if your income is technically too low to qualify for a place you want based on some official formula, you can offer a landlord an extra few months' deposit up front and there is a fair chance they will say yes, depending on the demand for housing where you live. probably won't work with a big corporate rental company but with individuals definitely worth a shot, no harm in asking, do it up front, be straightforward, don't wait for them to run your credit & turn you down first.
- you have a long and stable rental history, which should help you. if the relative from whom you currently rent is a parent, you are under no obligation to disclose this to anyone - no potential landlord needs to know or should know your relationship to your current landlord. I do not know how often landlords really do check references, even when they ask for them. but if the relative is at all friendly to you when not discussing their own personal finances, if you think they would back you up when called as a reference - or if none of the preceding but you feel like taking a risk - you can claim to have been paying a higher rent than you actually have been. if you have in truth been paying much less to the relative than you are looking to pay for your own place, this may be useful.
since this regards landlord dealings, whether it is actually a good idea or not depends on practical considerations, not ethics.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:32 AM on August 13, 2022
- you have a long and stable rental history, which should help you. if the relative from whom you currently rent is a parent, you are under no obligation to disclose this to anyone - no potential landlord needs to know or should know your relationship to your current landlord. I do not know how often landlords really do check references, even when they ask for them. but if the relative is at all friendly to you when not discussing their own personal finances, if you think they would back you up when called as a reference - or if none of the preceding but you feel like taking a risk - you can claim to have been paying a higher rent than you actually have been. if you have in truth been paying much less to the relative than you are looking to pay for your own place, this may be useful.
since this regards landlord dealings, whether it is actually a good idea or not depends on practical considerations, not ethics.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:32 AM on August 13, 2022
One way to narrow down your apartment search could be by neighborhood walkability score, since you don't have a vehicle. Take with a grain of salt, because some elements of the score will matter more to you than others, but if nothing else it could help you rule some areas out.
posted by humbug at 9:48 AM on August 13, 2022
posted by humbug at 9:48 AM on August 13, 2022
When you apply for an apartment, the landlord will ask for contact information for past landlords. (If you haven't applied for anything yet, pick up an application the next time you look at an apartment just so you can see what you'll need). Will your family member give you a good reference? The landlord will probably also ask you to list how much rent you have been paying (if it's a lot less than the new rent, it's possible that could be an issue). Another advantage of renting a room in a roommate situation is that it may be a little easier to get over the hurdle of your uncommon rental history.
Do you work remotely? If not, I would look at public transit routes so you can focus on neighborhoods with the shortest commute (if you can live within walking distance, even better). If you're considering living in a neighborhood you're not familiar with, you can take a little time now to explore/visit at night and make sure you feel comfortable there before moving.
I agree with all the advice above about how to set your budget and save up an emergency fund, and putting traveling aside for the moment so you can save up a little more. Also, how much do you want to budget to keep helping out your family? Is letting them handle their own bills an option?
Finding a place to live is very stressful, and you're right, there are plenty of scams (and the cost of rent is going up, and there's a lot of competition for apartments, etc.) It sucks. Best of luck.
posted by pinochiette at 10:16 AM on August 13, 2022
Do you work remotely? If not, I would look at public transit routes so you can focus on neighborhoods with the shortest commute (if you can live within walking distance, even better). If you're considering living in a neighborhood you're not familiar with, you can take a little time now to explore/visit at night and make sure you feel comfortable there before moving.
I agree with all the advice above about how to set your budget and save up an emergency fund, and putting traveling aside for the moment so you can save up a little more. Also, how much do you want to budget to keep helping out your family? Is letting them handle their own bills an option?
Finding a place to live is very stressful, and you're right, there are plenty of scams (and the cost of rent is going up, and there's a lot of competition for apartments, etc.) It sucks. Best of luck.
posted by pinochiette at 10:16 AM on August 13, 2022
A few thoughts:
I went to a condo open house near my office. A signup sheet for follow-up calls and information was passed around, and when I filled out my information (which included my net salary), and when the realtor and a resident I'd been chatting with took a look at it they both made a strange face (the same sort of face) and immediately stopped talking with me. So I assume that I did not make enough to afford living anywhere in that building.
Is it possible that the open house was for buying condos, not renting them? Perhaps you have an income that would allow you to rent a condo but isn’t enough to buy one.
Rental offices want to know WHEN you want to move in when you inquire about vacancies in a building and are clearly not motivated if you have no move-in month/date or are "just looking".
If you say “just looking,” they may think you’re not likely to actually move soon and thus - like you said - aren’t very motivated to help you. Just tell them something like, “I’m hoping to move in on September 1st or 15th, but I could also wait until later in the year if I needed to”
I know many people have had to figure this out and much more at much younger ages, so chiding me for this is not helpful.
People have different lives and learn various life skills at different times! I rented my first solo apartment immediately after college . . . because my parents helped me find it, walked me through the whole process, co-signed the lease, and were available as a financial safety net if needed - which is a privilege I did nothing to earn and that a lot of people don’t have. Some people are forced to figure out how to rent independently when they’re kicked out at 18. Some people have parents who buy them an apartment or two and thus they never rent independently.
posted by maleficent at 11:44 AM on August 13, 2022
I went to a condo open house near my office. A signup sheet for follow-up calls and information was passed around, and when I filled out my information (which included my net salary), and when the realtor and a resident I'd been chatting with took a look at it they both made a strange face (the same sort of face) and immediately stopped talking with me. So I assume that I did not make enough to afford living anywhere in that building.
Is it possible that the open house was for buying condos, not renting them? Perhaps you have an income that would allow you to rent a condo but isn’t enough to buy one.
Rental offices want to know WHEN you want to move in when you inquire about vacancies in a building and are clearly not motivated if you have no move-in month/date or are "just looking".
If you say “just looking,” they may think you’re not likely to actually move soon and thus - like you said - aren’t very motivated to help you. Just tell them something like, “I’m hoping to move in on September 1st or 15th, but I could also wait until later in the year if I needed to”
I know many people have had to figure this out and much more at much younger ages, so chiding me for this is not helpful.
People have different lives and learn various life skills at different times! I rented my first solo apartment immediately after college . . . because my parents helped me find it, walked me through the whole process, co-signed the lease, and were available as a financial safety net if needed - which is a privilege I did nothing to earn and that a lot of people don’t have. Some people are forced to figure out how to rent independently when they’re kicked out at 18. Some people have parents who buy them an apartment or two and thus they never rent independently.
posted by maleficent at 11:44 AM on August 13, 2022
That old "1/3 of your income on housing" trope assumes that people have a car with the associated expenses, and that people have debt. If you have neither of those things, ignore that. Personally, I spend A LOT more than that percentage on rent. But this allows me to live very centrally, so I don't have the expense of a car. (It's also where I *want* to live. I have no debt, and a cheap phone plan (Mint Mobile). It works out. Good luck!
posted by cyndigo at 1:08 PM on August 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by cyndigo at 1:08 PM on August 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
First off, please know that this internet stranger doesn't think you should feel any shame for not living on "your own" before. I wish we in the U.S. would stop equating moving out and living without roommates with being a proper adult. I lived with housemates (who had a kid) in my my mid-30s to early 40s and loved it.
Nth-ing the suggestion to ask coworkers or acquaintances or MeFites. I see your profile lists you as in Minneapolis! I have had wonderful "mom-and-pop" landlords and personally feel very leery of professionally managed apartment complexes because in my experience, areas with no or low renter protections the professional property management companies have tended to raise the rents to market rate every year, while my immigrant landlords have been happy to keep the rent the same for a quiet, mostly on-time renter. (Except once this year due to cost of living/inflation, but the rent remained below market).
posted by spamandkimchi at 1:36 PM on August 13, 2022
Nth-ing the suggestion to ask coworkers or acquaintances or MeFites. I see your profile lists you as in Minneapolis! I have had wonderful "mom-and-pop" landlords and personally feel very leery of professionally managed apartment complexes because in my experience, areas with no or low renter protections the professional property management companies have tended to raise the rents to market rate every year, while my immigrant landlords have been happy to keep the rent the same for a quiet, mostly on-time renter. (Except once this year due to cost of living/inflation, but the rent remained below market).
posted by spamandkimchi at 1:36 PM on August 13, 2022
If you feel comfortable sharing the cities or neighbourhoodswhere you're open to moving, people here may be able to share more targeted advice / specific budget ideas.
I think it's totally fine that you lived with your family. Different cultures do different things and in most POC cultures (like mine, too!) it's totally normal and expected to stay with parents longer than in many white cultures.
Condos tend to be nicer and more expensive, so maybe consider an apartment building that's rental-only, and not as nice, first.
I suggest you try to save an emergency fund before you leave - say, 2-3 months' total amount of living expenses put aside (that's in addition to first+last months' rent).
Consider moving with a roommate, ideally someone quiet and easygoing who has lived on their own at least a little bit.
When you move out, remember that some of the items you take can be sold as assets if you're really short on cash. Furniture, a bike, a TV, power tools, any designer items, suitcases, etc. So if you're ever really stuck for cash, you could always sell a few things. Choose what to bring with you with this in mind - you don't want to totally overload your new place, but do bring some extra stuff that has resale value. (Look on Facebook Marketplace to see what things can be sold).
It's amazing that you have no credit card debt! You can leverage that to give yourself a cushion. Raise the credit limit on any existing credit cards (but don't spend more!) Also, get a new credit card and put a single bill on it (like your phone bill) and pay it down to zero every month. Doing this will help raise your credit score, give you a record of being responsible, and it will give you a larger amount available credit in case you ever have a short term cash crunch. Having access to, say, $5000 or $10,000 worth of credit could cover medical emergencies or groceries for quite a while and would give you peace of mind.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 2:37 PM on August 13, 2022
I think it's totally fine that you lived with your family. Different cultures do different things and in most POC cultures (like mine, too!) it's totally normal and expected to stay with parents longer than in many white cultures.
Condos tend to be nicer and more expensive, so maybe consider an apartment building that's rental-only, and not as nice, first.
I suggest you try to save an emergency fund before you leave - say, 2-3 months' total amount of living expenses put aside (that's in addition to first+last months' rent).
Consider moving with a roommate, ideally someone quiet and easygoing who has lived on their own at least a little bit.
When you move out, remember that some of the items you take can be sold as assets if you're really short on cash. Furniture, a bike, a TV, power tools, any designer items, suitcases, etc. So if you're ever really stuck for cash, you could always sell a few things. Choose what to bring with you with this in mind - you don't want to totally overload your new place, but do bring some extra stuff that has resale value. (Look on Facebook Marketplace to see what things can be sold).
It's amazing that you have no credit card debt! You can leverage that to give yourself a cushion. Raise the credit limit on any existing credit cards (but don't spend more!) Also, get a new credit card and put a single bill on it (like your phone bill) and pay it down to zero every month. Doing this will help raise your credit score, give you a record of being responsible, and it will give you a larger amount available credit in case you ever have a short term cash crunch. Having access to, say, $5000 or $10,000 worth of credit could cover medical emergencies or groceries for quite a while and would give you peace of mind.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 2:37 PM on August 13, 2022
Given how untenable your current housing situation sounds, I disagree with those suggesting you need to wait until you have 6 months-worth of savings before you move. Sure, that's ideal, but there are monetary risks that come with staying in your current place with no benefits. You have a job, and you just got a promotion!! It doesn't sound like you're at risk for being fired in the near-future, unless you good reason to question the financial health of your current company.
Also, if you ever really need a job, like "holy shit I'm about to be homeless" need a job, if you are at least above average intelligence, and can show up to work on time and work diligently (all of which I assume is true for you), it's not hard to get hired at a warehouse or busing tables in a restaurant, etc. These are places with very high turnover, and so it's a revolving door of short-term employment. Those aren't great jobs, but having done both them, and knowing that they exist, was a comfort to me when I was living month-to-month.
So yes, I agree with your therapist that it does sound like the extent of your anxiety is not warranted here. Moving is hard and a pain in the ass yes, signing a lease is a responsibility and a potential risk, yes - but all of that applies to what you're currently dealing with.
Also - don't totally rule out getting housemates. I've lived with people in their late 30s/40s when I was in my 20s, I also currently have friends in their late 30s with housemates. It is of course always a bit of a gamble to live with other people (as your current situation is evidence of), but it does have perks. For one thing, you will only need to furnish your bedroom, which presumably you already have. If you take the time to sit down and chat with your potential housemates, make sure none of your pet peeves, sleeping schedules, etc. clash, it can be really nice living with other people. And it will be much, much, more affordable. Even if the housemates end up being more neutral presences in your life, the benefit is you'll be able to save more and get to a point where you can afford a nicer place of your own sooner.
Another vote for a mom-and-pop landlord. When I've been able to rent from individuals, I always do - they tend not to charge late fees (unless you're *really* late), are more likely to be understanding if you say, get fired, and less likely to nickel and dime you with the deposit.
Finally - I had to be really good at budgeting at one point in my life. If you feel comfortable, feel free to MeMail me your income/location info, your current estimated budget, and I'd be happy to try and help.
posted by coffeecat at 3:10 PM on August 13, 2022
Also, if you ever really need a job, like "holy shit I'm about to be homeless" need a job, if you are at least above average intelligence, and can show up to work on time and work diligently (all of which I assume is true for you), it's not hard to get hired at a warehouse or busing tables in a restaurant, etc. These are places with very high turnover, and so it's a revolving door of short-term employment. Those aren't great jobs, but having done both them, and knowing that they exist, was a comfort to me when I was living month-to-month.
So yes, I agree with your therapist that it does sound like the extent of your anxiety is not warranted here. Moving is hard and a pain in the ass yes, signing a lease is a responsibility and a potential risk, yes - but all of that applies to what you're currently dealing with.
Also - don't totally rule out getting housemates. I've lived with people in their late 30s/40s when I was in my 20s, I also currently have friends in their late 30s with housemates. It is of course always a bit of a gamble to live with other people (as your current situation is evidence of), but it does have perks. For one thing, you will only need to furnish your bedroom, which presumably you already have. If you take the time to sit down and chat with your potential housemates, make sure none of your pet peeves, sleeping schedules, etc. clash, it can be really nice living with other people. And it will be much, much, more affordable. Even if the housemates end up being more neutral presences in your life, the benefit is you'll be able to save more and get to a point where you can afford a nicer place of your own sooner.
Another vote for a mom-and-pop landlord. When I've been able to rent from individuals, I always do - they tend not to charge late fees (unless you're *really* late), are more likely to be understanding if you say, get fired, and less likely to nickel and dime you with the deposit.
Finally - I had to be really good at budgeting at one point in my life. If you feel comfortable, feel free to MeMail me your income/location info, your current estimated budget, and I'd be happy to try and help.
posted by coffeecat at 3:10 PM on August 13, 2022
I have a friend who likes to travel and can’t afford it. So they house sit! When they visit friends in another city their friends will recommend them as a housesitter to people in their city. It provides both somewhere to stay and travel money. This can also be a very good stopgap if you lose your job and have a reputation as a reliable house and pet sitter.
The big thing is - you just kind of have to take the leap and figure things out as they come. Just like you are doing already! You have these skills already, they’re just being applied to keep your relative afloat. You have good advice above, and I’m really excited for you.
posted by Bottlecap at 5:16 PM on August 13, 2022
The big thing is - you just kind of have to take the leap and figure things out as they come. Just like you are doing already! You have these skills already, they’re just being applied to keep your relative afloat. You have good advice above, and I’m really excited for you.
posted by Bottlecap at 5:16 PM on August 13, 2022
About having gotten a raise that hasn't made a significant difference to your budget - you say you like your job, but if you truly don't earn enough to feel secure and if your industry and location allow for it, don't rule out looking for a new employer or role as a way to more dramatically increase your salary.
posted by trig at 8:04 PM on August 13, 2022
posted by trig at 8:04 PM on August 13, 2022
Try instead of searching online for apartments, going to places where you want to live and looking for vacancy signs. Many old school apartment complexes (which are good places to live because they are professionally managed and often have long-term stable tenants) don't bother advertising online because they don't need to. This is also more concrete than online and you'll know better whether you like the area.
Ask your friends also if they know of vacancies, someone might be able to ask their building manager and that person might be interested in tenants they have someone to vouch for. Also ask if they know of anyone looking for roommates.
I like the roommate idea to start. It's less intimidating and lower cost to set things up, and you'll save on any shared expenses where there is an economy of scale.
Also, you don't have to tell the truth about whether you're dead set on moving out currently. Just tell them a date you're looking at and seem serious about it.
posted by lookoutbelow at 3:02 PM on August 14, 2022
Ask your friends also if they know of vacancies, someone might be able to ask their building manager and that person might be interested in tenants they have someone to vouch for. Also ask if they know of anyone looking for roommates.
I like the roommate idea to start. It's less intimidating and lower cost to set things up, and you'll save on any shared expenses where there is an economy of scale.
Also, you don't have to tell the truth about whether you're dead set on moving out currently. Just tell them a date you're looking at and seem serious about it.
posted by lookoutbelow at 3:02 PM on August 14, 2022
You've gotten a lot of good advice on moving out, including timing, how to find an apartment, etc. Since some of your anxiety seems to focus on broader financial and life skills questions, I suggest getting from your library (or buying) a copy of Beth Kobliner's book Get a Financial Life. It's a short guide to financial literacy written for a reader who's starting from square one, and it covers the basics very well.
You might also check out budgeting resources such as You Need a Budget (YNAB). They can help figure out some of the apparently hidden costs of living on your own.
To take one example, trash and recycling fees: in some apartments, those are included in rent; in others, they're the responsibility of the tenant, who might choose among several options. Where I live, for example, I can pay to have someone pick up trash and recycling, or I can put it in a vehicle and take it to the transfer station. The latter costs less in money but more in time and hassle. On the other hand, the Saturday morning drop off often gives an opportunity to chat with folks. In still other places, the municipality collects trash and recycling. What's important is that you know that it's a potential cost and that you include a line in your budget for it—even if that turns out to be zero because it's in the rent.
Similarly with utilities: sometimes they're included, sometimes not. An apples-to-apples comparison between apartments of the first kind and of the second requires estimating utility costs. The local utilities' websites probably have some tools for doing that.
A lot of first-time renters neglect to get renters' insurance. That's a big mistake. Insurance can cover replacement cost of possessions that are damaged, lost, or stolen, the cost of a short-term hotel stay should your apartment become uninhabitable, and other coverage.
Again, Beth Kobliner's book goes over this kind of thing in just enough detail to be useful without being overwhelming.
posted by brianogilvie at 3:28 PM on August 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
You might also check out budgeting resources such as You Need a Budget (YNAB). They can help figure out some of the apparently hidden costs of living on your own.
To take one example, trash and recycling fees: in some apartments, those are included in rent; in others, they're the responsibility of the tenant, who might choose among several options. Where I live, for example, I can pay to have someone pick up trash and recycling, or I can put it in a vehicle and take it to the transfer station. The latter costs less in money but more in time and hassle. On the other hand, the Saturday morning drop off often gives an opportunity to chat with folks. In still other places, the municipality collects trash and recycling. What's important is that you know that it's a potential cost and that you include a line in your budget for it—even if that turns out to be zero because it's in the rent.
Similarly with utilities: sometimes they're included, sometimes not. An apples-to-apples comparison between apartments of the first kind and of the second requires estimating utility costs. The local utilities' websites probably have some tools for doing that.
A lot of first-time renters neglect to get renters' insurance. That's a big mistake. Insurance can cover replacement cost of possessions that are damaged, lost, or stolen, the cost of a short-term hotel stay should your apartment become uninhabitable, and other coverage.
Again, Beth Kobliner's book goes over this kind of thing in just enough detail to be useful without being overwhelming.
posted by brianogilvie at 3:28 PM on August 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Renter's insurance will cost about $15/mo.
You should be able to math out how much it will cost to feed yourself, so that's your food budget. Give yourself some cushion there so you can get unplanned takeout on days you're exhausted and no one will have cooked for you at home.
Google around apartment listings in your area to get an idea of what your base rent might be.
Add up your expected rent, your expected food, and $350. Is that 50% or less than your monthly income? If you lost your job tomorrow, do you have the savings to float that amount for 6 months?
If you answered yes to both those questions, you are in fantastic shape to move out as soon as possible . If you answered no, you really should consider a roommate at least for a little while.
posted by phunniemee at 6:12 PM on August 12, 2022 [10 favorites]