Talk:Chibi Vampire

Per the MOS, it would seem to me that this article should be renamed to Chibi Vampire as it is the official English name for the primary work, the manga, of the series as well as for the novels. AnmaFinotera (talk) 03:55, 11 April 2008 (UTC)Reply

• Support WhisperToMe (talk) 05:31, 11 April 2008 (UTC)Reply
• Support per WP:MOS-AM#Article names and disambiguation. A good precedent would be O-Parts Hunter over 666 Satan. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 05:34, 12 April 2008 (UTC)Reply
• Disagree, Chibi Vampire is only the name of the manga/novel from the publisher Tokyopop due to a similar title they publish. The manga/novel name outside the U.S. and Canada is Karin and the the anime series title remains Karin inside and out the U.S and Canada ZinnKid (talk) 16:13, 13 April 2008 (UTC)Reply
  • Which English speaking countries use "Karin"? If there are no other English-speaking countries that publish Karin then we would consider TOKYOPOP's version to be the sum of English-speaking attention to Karin. WhisperToMe (talk) 17:15, 14 April 2008 (UTC)Reply
    • None that I've seen. The only other place that publishes it that we know of is Carlsen Comics which does it in German.AnmaFinotera (talk) 18:17, 14 April 2008 (UTC)Reply

It's been a week and only one disagreement, so the article renaming has begun. I've already renamed the character list (which was badly named anyway), and the new chapter list has been created with Chibi Vampire instead of Karin. I've requested Chibi Vampire be deleted to make room for the rename, after which this one will be moved. AnmaFinotera (talk) 06:10, 18 April 2008 (UTC)Reply

Still not wild about the name, but yeah, it probably will be easier for most English speakers. I remember seeing it in B&N and thinking "wtf.. Chibi Vam.. hey wait, this is Karin!" -- Ned Scott 06:55, 19 April 2008 (UTC)Reply

LOL, its still better than Kimi Wa Pet -> Tramps Like Us :P I still haven't figured out where they pulled that out of. At least Chibi Vampire sort of works, since several times in reading the manga (and the first novel) I thought to myself that Karin is a rather little bitty thing for a high schooler, in high and build (except for a certain area, of course). AnmaFinotera (talk) 07:02, 19 April 2008 (UTC)Reply

I've only just seen this, I strongly disagree with the renaming, this was all discussed and settled a long time ago with the article intro being specifically recast to clarify that the subject is the story Karin by Yuna Kagesaki which has been published in various media with more than one title. The original title is Karin, the title character is called Karin, the anime is published under the name Karin, only the US edition of the manga has been given a different title. I vote for a reversion to the title Karin. Why was this discussion reopened at all? Samatarou (talk) 23:21, 23 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

The title is appropriate, as is, per our MoS. The discussion was reopened because the article was not in compliance with the MoS and needed to be. The anime was never finished, and the manga is the primary work. Its most well known in English as Chibi Vampire, so that is the name we will use. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 23:23, 23 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

It's a while since i logged into wikipedia, I just re-read the main article and frankly I think it's been wrecked. It now pretends to be about the manga in the way the intro. has been altered, and yet most of the body of the article is about the anime, which was the original bone of contention which led to the recasting of the article in the umbrella form of being about the story Karin rather than specifically the manga or anime or novels. Look at the character section for instance: since when did manga have voice actors? The simple fact is that Chibi Vampire does not have voice actors. Chibi Vampire does not have a character called Winner Sinclair. The anime Karin has voices actors. The anime Karin has a character called Winner Sinclair. Samatarou (talk) 23:33, 23 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

While the article needs to stay at Chibi Vampire, awful as that name is - we have guidelines for a reason, and that is to settle arguments like this one - you do raise a good point. The article needs some major work to refocus the body on the manga, and the original story; the anime material should be subservient to the original, superior, work. Doceirias (talk) 00:46, 25 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

The latter part, I also agree with. I can only do so much in that regard, however, as I am still reading the manga. I retooled the character section, but can't really rewrite the plot until the series is done being released here. If someone else has read the entire series, I certainly welcome them to rewrite the plot from the manga POV, with the suggested single paragraph at the end to note the differences in the adaptation as per the MoS. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 02:21, 25 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

The article is in keeping with the MoS and has been much improved. The name of the article is not an indication that its totally about the manga. We include the manga and anime information in the character lists, noting changes in the adaptation. Same as the plot. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 23:37, 23 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

Well the anime finished two years ago. The fact that US DVDs of it haven't all been released is neither here nor there, Wikipedia is not a marketing vehicle. I also disagree that the story is best known as Chibi Vampire, which was a very controversial renaming as Karin is not chibi in any sense of the word. Samatarou (talk) 23:39, 23 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

You can disagree and dislike Tokyopop's naming choice all you want, but that doesn't mean we won't use it. The US DVDs will never be released here, but that doesn't matter either. By our naming conventions and the MoS we will use the most commonly used name in English speaking places, which is Chibi Vampire. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 23:42, 23 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

I support reverting to the original name. Karin is used within the article and apparently in much of the world - let's not be too US-centric guys. Abtract (talk) 13:34, 24 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

That's the name used in the US and Canada, but no other English speaking version is mentioned. I assume copies of it in the UK and other English speaking countries are using imports of Tokyo Pop, and are also using "Chibi Vampire" as a name. -- Ned Scott 05:13, 25 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

From the Amazon.uk solicitations, yes TP is planning to import to the UK and it will also be released there as Chibi Vampire. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 19:39, 25 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

• Revert to Karin. The original is named Karin, and at least one English-language release has the same name. See also the similar discussion about the naming of Saint Seiya vs "Knights of the Zodiac." 68.81.95.231 (talk) 22:32, 24 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

Again, per the MoS and Wikipedia naming conventions, we will use the name Chibi Vampire which is the official English release name of the primary work, the manga, as well as the novel series. It is the name most English speakers know, not Karin. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 23:12, 24 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

• Keep as Chibi Vampire. It doesn't matter what it is anywhere else. In English speaking countries, it's know, only as Karin with the DVDs, and Geneon is out of business, correct? It's most well known as Chibi Vampire and is the primary name used. WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 01:22, 25 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

• Name sucks, but that's life While I wasn't opposed to keeping the original name, there is good reason to believe that most of our English readers will be more familiar with the name "Chibi Vampire". As long as we're noting both, it really isn't a big deal. -- Ned Scott 05:16, 25 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

• Revert to Karin. Quite frankly, I don't know many people who refer tor this franchise as "Chibi Vampire". The most I ever see that name is when somebody on the net types "Karin (Chibi Vampire)" Keeping this article Chibi Vampire will just cause confusion. ZinnKid (talk) 19:11, 25 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

• Keep as Chibi Vampire. Changed my mind, ANN and most of the English references refer to the manga/novel as Chibi Vampire or Karin (Chibi Vampire). And to change this article and all related articles back to Karin is not worth the effort. Karin (manga) redirects here, so some articles do not necessarily need it's links changed. ZinnKid (talk) 15:05, 29 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

Your not knowing anyone who uses the name doesn't mean it is not the most widely used. Chibi Vampire is the only official English name, and most widely used in the English speaking world and net. All series solicitations and the vast majority of news items and other RS will refer to Chibi Vampire, not Karin. Karin is rarely used accept among a handful of fans. We aren't catering to them, but to the world as a whole. Most people unfamiliar with the series who come across it in English will see Chibi Vampire, its English name. Whether people like it or not doesn't matter. Tokyopop renamed Kimi wa Pet to Tramps Like Us, its the official English name and the most widely know in English speaking places, so the article is named Tramps Like Us. This is in keeping with all relevant guidelines and policies regarding naming conventions. Reverting to Karin would violate them. As a side note, the series was also not released as Karin in Germany. It was renamed to Cheeky Vampire so it wasn't just renamed in the US/UK. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 19:25, 25 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

The fact that is has different names in various countries makes it all the more imperative that we use the original name, "Karin". This is the central name, known to most, that ties together the other "renames". Abtract (talk) 19:32, 25 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

No, it doesn't. English speakers who come across this series will never know the name Karin, it isn't the most widely used. All relevant naming guidelines and our MoS clearly show the name must be Chibi Vampire, not the lesser known Karin. We westernize names by putting them in our preferred order, because its most common in English speaking places, not because its the "original". The same applies here. And please stop injecting yourself into discussions. You've already been warned about your following me and you know absolutely nothing about the issue, nor the relevant guidelines or policies. Jumping in just to disagree with me helps no one.-- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 19:34, 25 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

The manga isn't the only the only media in this franchise, and just because Geneon left doesn't mean all English speakers simply forget about the anime. Also, ("Chibi Vampire" -Karin) on google returns 75,700 results, but ("Chibi Vampire" Karin) pulls up 109,000 results. And I believe that your accusation that Karin "it isn't the most widely used" is false. ZinnKid (talk) 02:10, 26 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

Considering the main character's name is Karin, that's a beyond false comparison. You rsearch terms eliminate any hits that also mention her name. "Chibi Vampire" as is pulls 606,000 Google hits, so no Karin is not the most widely used. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 02:17, 26 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

Sorry, forgot about the main characters name. I still believe that Karin is the most widely used name, but now I have no way of proving it. Also, like I said before, the manga isn't the only the only media in this franchise and just because Geneon left doesn't mean all English speakers simply forget about the anime. ZinnKid (talk) 03:16, 26 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

It isn't the only, but it is the primary, and with Geneon's leaving, it is also the only name the series is released under in English, both the manga and the light novels. Even if Geneon had released the series to completion, the Tokyopop releases came first, and its two media versus one with the name Chibi Vampire so the result would likely be the same. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 03:16, 26 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

I still believe that it should be changed back because per WP:MOS-AM#Article names and disambiguation, as it states: "...unless the native form is more commonly recognized by readers than the English form". I cannot see how you can think that Karin is "lesser known". And it states "recognized by readers", nothing about those readers having to be English or from The U.S. or Canada. ZinnKid (talk) 04:31, 26 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

Also, you stated before that Chibi Vampire "pulls 606,000 Google hits". But when I search it up I only get 355,000.

[1] ZinnKid (talk) 04:41, 26 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

Must be something specific to you then, cause your link pulls up 607,000 on my end. As fro the MOS-AM, it is not the only one that applies, but also the Japan MOS and Wikipedia's overall naming conventions, as is linked to right below that statement. It is also the consensus in the project that recognized by readers = English readers. Karin is the lesser known title to English readers. You can see this is the case in all other such rename discussions, of which there are many. The results are the same, the official English name stays. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 04:45, 26 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

But English speakers do more commonly refer to it as Karin, specifically on the internet. Like I said before: "[It states] nothing about those readers having to be... from The U.S. or Canada."

A handful of manga fans on the internet, which is a niche group of those well versed in the topic, does not equal the vast majority of manga readers who will check it out from the library or pick it up in a bookstore. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 04:58, 26 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

But never once have I seen the manga at any bookstore or library I've went to, and the internet is not a handfull. And after searching "Chibi Vampire" on Google though a Taxas proxy in which the result was 606,000, but after browsing too page 100 (the last) and then returning, the result is now 434,000 [2][3]

ZinnKid (talk)

Hmmm...so you don't show at Barnes and Noble? Waldenbooks? Hastings? Amazon.com? All of them carry the series. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 05:23, 26 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

Did actually go to these stores or search their site?, Anyways thats not important. "Chibi Vampire" on Google only pulls up 434,000 now[4][5] and unless you've never used the internet(in which Wikipedea is located) then it as obvious the Karin is more common ZinnKid (talk) 05:47, 26 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

Um, yes, I go to Barnes and Noble every week. Ditto Hastings. Both carry the title on the shelves in very easy to find locations. Waldenbooks does too as I know several folks reading it who don't shop online. If you haven't been in bookstores of late, seems like a good time to visit them. The Internet is not the whole world, and it is not the only factor in anything. Irregardless, the PRIMARY work is released and licensed in English soley as Chibi Vampire so it is the only name the article will use. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 05:51, 26 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

Well, it seems I have lost this argument, touché AnmaFinotera. I wish to change opinion to Keep as Chibi Vampire because the rest of Wikipedia & ANN refers to the manga as Chibi Vampire and it would be a pain and a waste to change it back now. ZinnKid (talk) 06:03, 26 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

• Keep as Chibi Vampire. - as concluded in the last discussion. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 06:26, 26 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

• Keep as Chibi Vampire per MOS. The original work (the manga) is called Chibi Vampire in the English translation, so according to our MOS that is the title we should use. Karin (manga) redirects to here anyway and Karin links to here so it doesn't really matter if people look for that title. --Eruhildo (talk) 05:51, 29 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

Where'd they pull "Chibi Vampire" from? Karin isn't small... -- Ned Scott 05:48, 11 April 2008 (UTC)Reply

LOL, no idea. Their announcement doesn't say why, though an ANN review mentioned it sounding more marketable since they wanted to rename anyway to avoid confusion with Kamichama Karin. :P AnmaFinotera (talk)

Well, she is short compared to Kenta. --Eruhildo (talk) 15:49, 18 April 2008 (UTC)Reply

ANN's review of the first volume notes that it is likely a nod to Karin's small stature (one character notes that she is very thin in addition to her being somewhat short). -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 18:25, 24 May 2008 (UTC)Reply

Karin anime has now been released by FUNimation. I'm not sure if this affects the name debate. WhisperToMe (talk) 17:08, 14 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

I don't think it should have any affect. The primary work is still Chibi Vampire, the manga. The anime is a secondary work. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 17:37, 14 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

On the other hand, anime tends to be more easily consumed than manga by most people (not me, I hate having to slow down for a video), so it would increase the number of people who know it by the anime name. But on the other other hand, manga is cheaper, which definitely affects how many people consume it. I'd say give it a few months. --Raijinili (talk) 10:19, 18 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

The only thing that matters is which was the original creation. Doceirias (talk) 12:23, 18 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

Hate to bring up a sore subject, but my position is that since the english manga/light novel releases are the ONLY references to call this series "Chibi Vampire", I personally believe it should be reverted to Karin. That is just personal though. I actually disagree with the MOS in this case. I understand the reasoning, but, to me, the spirit of the logic there is to make sure people can find Fullmetal Alchemist without having to search for "Hagane No Renkinjutsushi", essentially using the english translation rather than the japanese text. However, in this case we have a simple title, the character's name, that an english company chose to alter for their own reasons. I personally started reading the manga after seeing it as Chibi Vampire, but within a few days of starting it I knew the title was Karin. To say that most English readers know it as Chibi Vampire, and don't know that it is Karin is unsubstantiable, as many "Otaku" will tend toward finding out all about it if they enjoy the series and will come upon the first fact that the original source (Jap) is Karin. Again, I will concede the previous rules, but I don't agree with them.StryyderG (talk) 19:08, 13 March 2009 (UTC)Reply

The manga is the primary work. Chibi Vampire will continue to be the article name. The article clearly indicates that the anime is released as Karin. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 00:18, 14 March 2009 (UTC)Reply

Ugh. AnmaFinotera, you're not a cop or something. This isn't a restricted area. Stop talking like that. "This is the way it will be" in response to an opinion post is rude and unhelpful.

StryyderG, if you disagree with a standard, an article's talk page is not the right place to talk about it. Go to WP:MOS-AM's talk page. --Raijinili (talk) 04:29, 4 April 2009 (UTC)Reply

Sorry, but that is how it is. The MoS is extremely unlikely to change as it is based solidly in consensus and this issue has been discussed in the project recently and the consensus, once again, strongly upheld. No, this isn't a "restricted" area, but there are guidelines and policies and a few people disliking that the series is named Chibi Vampire in English will not change those. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 04:38, 4 April 2009 (UTC)Reply

The problem I have is not with the MOS. The problem is with your attitude. Saying things in the tone of "This is a restricted area. You are not allowed here," to continue with the analogy, is rude. Don't bite the newbies. --Raijinili (talk) 17:43, 4 April 2009 (UTC)Reply

She's not being rude, she's being clear with you. Being rude is saiying "F"·$%!!! Read the damn MOS!!!", so it's not like someone's scorning you ¬_¬--190.74.183.21 (talk) 19:29, 20 May 2009 (UTC)Reply