Talk:Goofy

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Second sentence is "Goofy is a tall, anthropomorphic dog...".

He might be a dog, he might not. It's something reasonable people have been debating for decades (in Stand by Me (film) we have "Pluto's a dog, right? So what's Goofy?" and that was 35 years ago), and looks like people still argue about it. so I'm not OK with a flat-out "is a dog". Pretty sure the "cow" thing is just a joke, so what it comes down to is: is he a dog, or he a sui generis animated cartoon character of no defined species (unless perhaps a caricature of a human)? And I think the answer is "we don't know for sure".

So, Art Babbitt created Goofy I gather, and in 1934 he said

It is true that there is a vague similarity in the construction of the Goof’s head and Pluto’s. The use of the eyes, mouth and ears are entirely different. One is dog, the other human.

Emphasis added. And then we have Bill Farmer, the voice of Goofy for the last 34 years, and He says

He is not a dog. Pluto is a dog, but Goofy seems to be in the canine family in the same way that a wolf is not a dog, but they also are in the canine family. I think Canis Goofus is the technical Latin term for what Goofy is. He’s just Goofy.

Emphasis added. So those are some pretty authoritative sources right there.

Yes but... there are other sources saying that Goofy is a dog. There are! His original incarnation was named Dawg, and it says in the article (no source) that in some recent comics he's named "Goofus D. Dawg". In this article, we have Rachel Berman on ohmy.disney.com including Goofy as a Disney Dog. OhMyDisney is hosted by Disney, but it has "posts" instead of articles; pretty sure that Rachel Berman isn't even a Disney employee (google can't find her) or probably even paid except maybe a tiny commission for each page view or something. I doubt there's very deep editorial scrutiny and fact-checking there.

(And anyway, here is a different Disney site (disney.go.com, now just disney.com) with "Goofy was created as a human character, as opposed to Pluto, who was a pet, so he walked upright and had a speaking voice" (there's no author or date tho), and besides even if we had an official statement saying "he's a dog" from Disney executives -- which we don't -- it wouldn't matter that much, just as WP:OFFICIALNAMEs don't matter that much.

But I'm sure if we look around we can find better he's-a-dog sources that Rachel Berman. And fine, I'm not advocating that we should say he isn't a dog, just that it is unclear. So let's remove the statements that he's a dog and be vauger. OK? Herostratus (talk) 12:14, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Herostratus, can we just replace "dog" with "animal"? That would work for me. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 22:32, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sure Alexis Jazz, I'm easy.

I'm not really involved in this article, but maybe a short section, few sentences, down toward the end, about the dispute?? Herostratus (talk) 23:33, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see how labeling Goofy an anthropomorphic dog contradicts the sources. Calling Goofy an anthropomorphic dog is basically the same as calling him a "dog-man" or "missing link between man and dog". Calling him an anthropomorphic animal is unnecessary pussyfooting. LittleJerry (talk) 00:41, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

LittleJerry, it may depend on how you view him. I just looked at the image with my head tilted and suddenly saw Goofy as a dog. But normally I see Goofy as something closer to a human than any animal. Goofy has no dog-like behavior, his body shape doesn't match that of a dog and he doesn't generally get inserted into situations that refer to him being related to a dog. Goofy is more like a skylomorphized (skýlos) human. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 03:36, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

All anthropomorphic animal characters are essentially human. Mickey doesn't behave (or look) like a real mouse either. LittleJerry (talk) 12:26, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

LittleJerry, behave no but look yes, at least much more than Goofy. Mickey has a tail, Goofy does not. Mickey's ears are extremely characteristic for his appearance and very mouse-like, no human has ears even remotely like that. While Goofy does have dog ears, they aren't as characteristic for him and tend to behave more like hair in animation, not drawing too much attention to themselves as dog ears. In his George Geef persona he often has no earlobes at all. Mickey often doesn't wear an upper garment, Goofy is only portrayed without an upper garment when appropriate, for example when swimming. Mickey's shoes are swollen, Goofy has human feet. (with 4 toes as is common for cartoon characters) Mickey is small, like a mouse. Goofy is human-sized. Mickey sounds like a mouse, high-pitched. Goofy doesn't sound particularly like a dog, — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:16, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Anthropomorphic dog" is a perfectly broad term that can encompass characters that are like real dogs but can walk upright to characters that are human bodied with dog heads. LittleJerry (talk) 13:36, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

LittleJerry, we'll have to agree to disagree. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:44, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Alexis Jazz we're not going into a edit war over this. No source describes Goofy as a "dog-like human". This is pure original research. LittleJerry (talk) 22:26, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

LittleJerry, that's not what I put in the article (only what I put in the edit summary), in the article text I wrote "human-like character with facial features of a dog" which is perfectly accurate and much closer to the source than what you're trying to insert. The source doesn't say Goofy is a dog, period. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 22:30, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Anthropomorphic dog" is essentially the same as dog-man or half-human half-dog. This is also consistent with how we introduce other anthropomorphic animal characters including ones that essentially behave like humans. We don't describe them as "human-like with [insert-species]-characteristics". You can ask for more opinions on this and get a consensus or let it go. LittleJerry (talk) 22:40, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Czello, where in the source does it say "Goofy is a dog"? All I see is "Goofy is sort of the missing link between dog and man."[1] which just tells me Goofy is neither. If that leaves any doubt, [2] is more explicit: “He is not a dog,” Farmer tells us, with absolute authority. “Pluto is a dog, but Goofy seems to be in the canine family in the same way that a wolf is not a dog, but they also are in the canine family. I think Canis Goofus is the technical Latin term for what Goofy is. He’s just Goofy.” Herostratus, this discussion is up again. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 08:09, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No. Saying something is a "missing link" between X and Y means that it is both or at least one of them on its way to becoming the other. And Bill Farmer is not a authority, he's giving his opinion that Goofy is some sort of canine but his own thing. LittleJerry (talk) 12:10, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Facts is facts. Goofy is not a dog. Pluto is a dog. Herostratus (talk) 05:03, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Canine" is an acceptable compromise, I suppose. But, my gosh, are you being silly with this hardline stand against calling him what everyone considers him to be, a dog. And you have no "facts", only opinions meant to distinguish between Goofy and Pluto, two cartoon dogs anthropomorphized to different degrees.128.151.71.8 (talk) 14:41, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No its not a "compromise", this was already discussed in detail (added below) and we don't need some random user to override consensus. LittleJerry (talk) 22:49, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can't edit (new account) but jist noticed the following vandalism which has been present since 2/20/2022:

"Goofy was awarded a Purple Heart, this later revealed to be a deception by Goofy and he was accused of Stolen Valor. In 2018, he was still recounting people with falsified stories of how he stormed the Beaches of Normandy."

If someone else can strike it out, have at thee. :> Saaturnidae (talk) 04:50, 23 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

wheres my mother hyucking money?.... 115.70.77.111 (talk) 01:14, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I need some help who is either Webb or Johnson voice Goofy? It's might be confusion. 2001:FB1:33:BDDF:690B:7CFB:15FF:8966 (talk) 14:20, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The opening of this article is far too long with far too many details best left to the "History" section.128.151.71.8 (talk) 14:19, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]