Talk:Fantasy trope

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Merge discussions

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Rewrite

This list is not informative about what these tropes are or why they are used or what their signficiance is in works. It should be rewriten into text. Goldfritha 02:19, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

original research?

We need references to works which discuss the overall subject matter, not just individual examples. Otherwise this compilation of "what fantasy tropes are there?" is nothing but original research.

In the end, without such references the page needs to go, no matter how useful it is.

Let's see if I can find a suitable template... CapnZapp (talk) 12:04, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

TVTropes' Forum agrees with that. It's their job to list examples without citing sources, not ours. [See this thread] Raekuul, bringer of Tropes (He does it without notability) 20:33, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Medievalism

I know what the article's trying to say, and I can't think of a better way of putting it, but isn't "these settings are ... less typical of contemporary fantasy" equivilent to "fantasy set in the present day is not usually set in a medieval world"? Which is, well, obvious, really. Daibhid C (talk) 22:50, 14 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I belive what you are looking for is urban fantasy , fantasy most comonly asositated with vampires ect. Note i think one of the problems this page is having that fantasy as a hole is a borad area with many sub genre that contrdict the rules prehaps focusing on pure fantasy and then mentioning the exceptions of veriuos major sub genres will help solve this problem. Please excuse any bad spelling as i am have dislexia and have other things to do today the check my spelling on this post. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.90.163.69 (talk) 01:41, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The force?

The force shouldn't be here. It's not magic, and it's not from a fantasy. It's a natural ability, and it's science fiction. Feedback much appreciated. Since I cannot edit Wiki due to technical problems, somebody else will have to remove it. Thank you very much. Avianmosquito (talk) 14:26, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do I need to pull out Clarke's Third Law? It's something that cannot be explained with current scientific principals. Hence, it fits a definition of magic to a degree. Personally, I dislike it when people assume that Magic and Technology are incompatible. Raekuul, bringer of Tropes (He does it without notability) 00:00, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

sorry it's magic, it's not a natural ability and it certainly is not SciFi. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.27.50 (talk) 10:13, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

NPOV

Cut this for NPOV. Anything which describes a practice as "unfortunate" is not neutral. Goldfritha (talk) 03:18, 27 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Many common fantasy themes depend on an unfortunately limited conceptualization of medieval patriarchy that governs relations between the sexes; in tandem with this, the fantasy heroine is often at her best when rising above conditions that are against her in gender-based ways. ^[1]

References

^ Jane Tolmie, "Medievalism and the Fantasy Heroine." Journal of Gender Studies, Vol. 15, No. 2 July 2006, pp. 145–158. ISSN 0958-9236

Thulsa Doom and Conan

Although Thulsa Doom appeared in the Conan movie he was an enemy of King Kull not Conan. More accurately it would be Thoth Amon. The wikipedia pages on Thulsa Doom and Thoth Amon are correct on this matter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.30.128.232 (talk) 15:40, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge of True Names in Popular Culture - Discussion

If anything the article true names in popular culture article should not be merged here, but merged with True Names instead. If moved it needs to be cleaned up too. It is mostly a miscellaneous list of information which is generally discouraged by Wikipedia standards. So long as the characters listed have a wikilink to the True Names page on their own respective wikipedia articles that should be sufficient. Another possibility is to create a category for "Characters with True Names" and add that category to various individual articles. -- Npd2983 (talk) 20:47, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Name

I have used "trope" in the sense of John Clute's use, more like "theme", but i see that trope is a more specific linguistic word outside of clutedom. I would suggest that this article be renamed "Fantasy themes", and the category be also renamed as such, to parallel the "Science fiction themes" category.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 06:45, 16 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree; I came here in a general search for types of literary trope, and was bemused to find that it's not about tropes in any usual sense of the word at all. "Themes" would be a clearer and more accurate term. --91.125.90.150 (talk) 10:32, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

We used to have a full article for fantasy races that covered them from various perspectives, with references to learned literature about them. Then someone went on a bit of a crusade on RPG-related pages, and we have this. SamBC(talk) 17:35, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This should be under fantasy tropes, per main article on literary tropes and Category:Fantasy tropes. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:40, 18 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Merge for Dark Lord

Apparently, somebody thought it would be right to merge Dark Lord back into Fantasy tropes and conventions. I oppose the merge since we needed to put the full info on Dark Lords somewhere. What do you think? Rtkat3 (talk) 9:12, May 5 2013 (UTC)

Requested move 30 October 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Per WP:NOTCURRENTTITLE and WP:BARTENDER, consensus is clearly split in this discussion, and while there is clear consensus that the article should move away from the present title, both the original proposal and alternative proposal have almost indistinguishable levels of support based in policy and explanatory positions. Neither of the two general options presented appears to have a clear consensus. Per the closing instructions, as this is a NOTCURRENTTITLE close, anyone who objects to this close is permitted to propose the alternative title as a separate RM at any time without being in breach of RM norms regarding wait times between move requests. (closed by non-admin page mover) EggRoll97 ^(talk) 00:12, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fantasy tropes → Fantasy trope – Per WP:NCPLURAL. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 02:15, 30 October 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Polyamorph (talk) 15:57, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support per WP:SINGULAR. Rreagan007 (talk) 07:05, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per MOS:PLURAL. Primergrey (talk) 07:10, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per ... WP:NCPLURAL, WP:SINGULAR, and MOS:PLURAL. InfiniteNexus (talk) 23:27, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Largely because this article isn't about the concept of a fantasy trope, just a list of them. Support an alternate move to Tropes in fantasy though. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:09, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and support Tropes in fantasy per Zxcvbnm. Broadly speaking, there are three types of disambiguators: 1) dab + noun, like Association football; 2) noun (dab), like Thriller (song); 3) dab prep noun, like Murder in California law. The second and third types serve very distinct purposes: the second is for when the noun can have many different senses, and the disambiguator helps distinguish which sense the article is about; the third is for when the noun means more or less the same thing as the overall main topic, but the disambiguator limits the scope of the article. The first one is sort of in-between, but definitely implies that dab + noun is an actual concept that exists. I think it is much more helpful to think of fantasy tropes not as a concept that exists in and of itself, but rather just Trope (literature) as applied to the genre of fantasy. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 09:56, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'd personally be fine with Trope (fantasy literature). Primergrey (talk) 15:23, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That is a type-2 disambiguator and is wrong according to what I've described, because it implies that there is some special thing called a "trope" in fantasy literature which is distinct from a normal trope in literature. Tropes in fantasy literature would also be fine though. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 16:29, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly; this is talking about the same concept, but applied to fantasy, not a separate concept unique to fantasy. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 18:51, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with Zxcvbnm and King of Hearts that Tropes in fantasy would be preferable. I'd also be OK with Tropes in fantasy literature but think just fantasy is precise enough. Jenks24 (talk) 00:15, 7 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support original proposal - make Fantasy trope be singular. Oppose the alternative suggestion, the subject of this article is actually fantasy tropes, which is a well-understood term, and there's no need to make the title longer, wordier and using terminology not usually used. — Amakuru (talk) 14:29, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that "fantasy trope" is not really a distinct concept that exists by itself, but rather is nothing more than just a Trope (literature) narrowed down to the genre of fantasy. So it's a class of things rather than a thing that can be defined on its own, and per WP:NCPLURAL it should remain in the plural. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 17:50, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Zxcvbnm and King of Hearts. This article is about a group or class of specific things – i.e., the group of tropes that commonly occur in the fantasy genre – and thus a plural title is appropriate per WP:PLURAL. I'm also open to the alternate title proposal of Tropes in fantasy. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 14:57, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment: Rough consensus for moving but it is not yet clear which title to move to Polyamorph (talk) 15:57, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think this is the right way to evaluate these multi-way RMs: 1) Is there consensus for a move? 2) Now that there's consensus for a move, where should we move it? This presumes that all supporters of some move believe that the current title is unacceptable and that any other title is better than the current one. Based on what I've seen from the discussion so far, it seems that supporters of Tropes in fantasy generally prefer the original title, Fantasy tropes, over Fantasy trope, while supporters of the singular title are mostly indifferent between the plural titles. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 05:03, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose move. As others said, this article is about general tropes in fantasy settings. Fantasy trope in of itself is not the topic of the article. I oppose moving to tropes in fantasy since the differences are minor and the current title is MOS:CONCISE. Ca ^{talk to me!} 03:37, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[1] Jane Tolmie, "Medievalism and the Fantasy Heroine." Journal of Gender Studies, Vol. 15, No. 2 July 2006, pp. 145–158. ISSN 0958-9236

[1]