Meeting minutes
[New Issue Triage](https://tinyurl.com/bdurz7mn)
UIA issue, Doug to review for aria-errormessage
scotto__: jamesn called me out on underexplaining....
jamesn: needs constraints
scotto__: could be an easier pattern in the UA so authors don't have to
spectranaut_: add agenda+
<jcraig> s/jn/jamesn: needs constraints/
[New PR Triage](https://tinyurl.com/bdeb2e63)
[Deep Dive planning](https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates)
<spectranaut_> w3c/
spectranaut_: role parity summary issue
week of July 27th
spectranaut_: consider use cases for aria-modal
scotto__: need aleventhal for that one
[Consider supporting aria-checked on gridcells](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1960)
sarah_h_: from probs with aria-selected and mixed state selection
esp if you have a selectable grid... checked column. select all rows via checkbox
when arrowing through the grid, this would help to keep focus on the check box gridcell itself
would need AAM mapping
jamesn: question: do we have examples if current usage and how it works? needs testing standard patterns across platforms
sarah_h_: not great support.
jamesn: would help progress if test cases provided
<sarah_h_> example use case: https://
MarioBatusic: why should it be possible to uncheck a row if you already have a checkbox there
understand need for selection, but not unchecking
sarah_h_: added example to the chat.. changes windows screen reader modes
Matt_King: i think these are screen reader bugs... maybe not cause for an ARIA change
would we have to write something similar to what we did for option and treeitem so that authors would not use both in conflicting ways
changed and provided guidance for authors and UAs to not provide both... with UA MUST error handling
with grid, there aren't well established patterns... Not sure I want to hear "selected" on every cell... That may be tangential
sarah_h_: currently standard practice for WIndows SRs to switch modes... would be a big change
Matt_King: not in JAWS, excepting one known bug with some links
sarah_h_: have tested recently, but will verify the version I was using
helpful to have that info exposed
gives example about file selection... filename including selection state was helpful... even though no checkbox provided
re: checked vs selected.... Agree with you to avoid that anti-pattern
* discussing some very specific user testing results
Matt_King: mentions another example in Google Sheets selection
sarah_h_: clarifying checked vs selected may need to be a prerequisite for this
Matt_King: in gridcell role, could add the same language in authoring guide from treeitem role
sarah_h_: will add PR and also talk to browser folks
Matt_King: need to coalesce on rows in tree vs treegrid
may need to add the same language on the row role too
[Discussion tracking for ARIA Notification proposal](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1957)
Doug: at F2F broke down into 7 different discussion groups
Doug: based on that we created individual discussion groups.
Doug: wanted to verify hit everyones issues
Doug: also wanted to go through individually
Doug: also want to go back to API doc and go back and change based on feedback
Doug: want to look into what is best course of action to move this forward
spectranaut_: might be good to go through some in the meetings maybe a few at a time until we get through them
Doug: some easier than others
Matt_King: there is a google doc with a spec
Matt_King: this API would have to be implemented at the platform level by both IA2 and UIA to work (on windows)? Who is the implementor here?
Doug: the browser would implement based on the best platform available
cyns: chrome will imeplement on IA2
Matt_King: does it require changes to IA2?
Doug: don't believe IA2 has what is needed. Believe UIA is close
Matt_King: wish the spec could be in comething other than a google doc
Matt_King: could it move into a repo?
jcraig: WICG?
cyns: I think Travis set up a repo
scotto__: based on the google doc it doesn't look like there are any comments
scotto__: the GH thread was to allow the discussion to be open
scotto__: shouldn't let that stop us talking about it now
scotto__: we could even put it in a wiki on ARIA
scotto__: changes could go there on a discussion thread
Matt_King: this spec needs to live somewhere
Matt_King: where does this go?
Doug: don't know the answer
jamesn: WICG seems best to me
<Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to mention the WICG move should not necessarily be tied to a solution or spec
jcraig: would call this something like Accessibility Notifications. Do not tie to proposed solution
cyns: is there a good reason not to add it to AOM
cyns: seems easier
jcraig: reasonable to be a topic in that meeting but would prefer its own repo
jcraig: the primary reason to incubation groups is to keep small groups of people very task-focused
spectranaut_: lets go through discussion points
Doug: Does the notification API need to support Braille?
Doug: do we need to do this up front - do we do it later?
jcraig: absolutely we need it
jcraig: hearing screen reader users, deaf-blind screen reader users and hybrid
jcraig: shorthand braille notifications is very useful. Some extension to that notification is useful
jcraig: absolutely consider up front
Doug: there could be folks that don't understand the difference and may use incorrectly
jcraig: we put a lot of through into braillelabel wording - its a tool and folks can do the wrong thing
Matt_King: do you want to move deeper and find what the braille requirements might be
"Would the notification API need to provide support for separate braille specific notification strings? What are people's thoughts on this being a v1 release feature or if this is maybe something that could be rolled out as part of future updates?"
Mario: screen readers control braille and web authors may not know the right thing for the braille
jcraig: I also missed the comment that this is about v1. should be considered for v1 but not be on the critical path for v1
cyns: what james just said. need a path forward but doesn't have to be in v1
Doug: has helped a lot to move forward
spectranaut_: can continue to discuss in the meeting