Meeting minutes
New Issue Triage
1714 Does aria-hidden obey DOM or AX tree ancestors?, james milestone this in next v of aria
scott james 1.3 issue
1712
1.4 mileston james
menu item no pres children 1.4?
scott heading inside menuitems
prose for what is allowed as children
buttons and tablists not explictly excluded or implicitly included
allowed child element, need prose
heading should not be one of them
requieed context role is not equivalent to allow the context role
matt/scott
triage
scotto and sarah
milestone for 1.4
1710
Which roles serve as group names and descriptions?
1.4?
scotto: related to accname stuff
jamesn:
more infor
info
112
Change mapping for generic
scotto: div span mappings
assign to matt lol
152 Tooltip def considerations
melsumner: to not block prs broke this out
1707
change events not defined
Specifically call out expectations for dynamically updated descriptions
implementers not aware
1.4
scotto: taking it
Expose a dialog as modal / non-modal #377
111,
Difference between combobox at an input or at another element
valerie volunteered by james
New PR Triage
1713
jamesn: closing
w3c/accname #150
w3c/aria #1705
melsumner: volunteered
volunteed chlane mark
Deep Dive planning
dialogs next week
hidden content - https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/57
When is hidden content taken into calculation of name and description? #57
spec say only direct children will be exposed
aaronlev: trying to detect doubly hidden stuff is a non starter
if you point to something that is hidden you get all the ax tree content
youll get all the hidden content
expect for a wierd situation
youll get both visible and invisible content
matt, take out words about explicitly hidden
programmatically knowable?
aaronlev: not now, maybe tecnically possible
jamesn: assumes chromium is happy with it?
jacobo: chrome is hiding things that are aria-hidden
matt there was mention of aria hidden
counterintuitive
the purpose is to hide from AT
I'm invisble
in name calc is not correct
jamesn:
jcraig: display none could get shown
cyns: use case where people had labels for screen reader text ariahidden and offescreen
as way to put it in the element without double reading
used to be a commen patter
n
matt, why?
offscreen is visible to accname
display: none will prevent double reading
aaronlev: matt, we went down roads, tooltip, decided, wording easier to have hidden stuff/not hidden stuff
when you point to something that is hidden you get everything
hairy
aria-hidden misuse
still need accessible name
aaronlev: when something gets focus labelledby references are still used
matt chrome bug, does this
aaronlev: will change this
aaronlev: spec hard to understand
matt is aria hidden completely ignorerd?
aaronlev: is subtree hidden? set bit after that we include every node in acc name
jamesn: aria hidden as child, seems useful, allows author to correct behavior
authoring possibilities
spec is already complex, this wont add to that
is this implememtanle by other browser engines
FF follows this behavior
<Zakim> jamesn, you wanted to ask how widely this has been shopped to other browsers
jcraig: seems reasonable
feesible
what can be agreed on an easily implentable
need to do full review, on his list
jamesn: prefers consistency among user agents
matt, we are making an edge case for aria-hidden
except when it is inside a hidden element and referenced by a name calc
scotto: aria-hidden="sometimes"
lo
l
<scotto> i appreciate that's how i was minuted
<jamesn> aria=hidden="🤷🏻♂️"
two wrongs dont make a right, should try to simplify
<cyns> +1
matt, we can do a better job of explaining the limitations of aria-hidden
jamesn: accnname is written for implementers
matt we live with the consequences
cyns: canonical test cases
matt bryan did that
with the accname calculator
bryan, test cases archive needs to be revisited
MichaelC: did we evergreen accname pretty sure
yes it is marked as a living standard
siri, hidden referring to visibility hidden and display;none, are you giving extra info to screen reader users now
cyns: this is by design
an important use case
tooltips that don't need the user to diplay them
scotto: repeat tooltip
lol