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16:58:25 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2022/03/24-aria-irc
16:58:27 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:58:28 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jamesn
16:58:31 <jamesn> agendabot, find agenda
16:58:31 <agendabot> jamesn, OK. This may take a minute...
16:58:31 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/2b92a902-1365-4ea0-8c68-9f8ae2106fe3/20220324T130000
16:58:31 <agendabot> clear agenda
16:58:31 <agendabot> agenda+  -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3ud44RL
16:58:32 <agendabot> agenda+  -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3CZNJ6G
16:58:34 <agendabot> agenda+  -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates
16:59:07 <jamesn> agenda+ Dialog -  https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1708
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16:59:26 <jamesn> agenda+ hidden content - https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/57
17:01:04 <MarkMcCarthy> present+
17:02:17 <chlane> scribe:chlane
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17:03:12 <scotto> present+
17:03:45 <jamesn> agenda is 1,2,3,5,4
17:03:52 <Jem> Jem has joined #aria
17:03:53 <jamesn> zakim, agenda is 1,2,3,5,4
17:03:53 <Zakim> sorry, jamesn, I do not recognize a party named 'agenda'
17:04:21 <jamesn> zakim, agenda order is 1,2,3,5,4
17:04:21 <Zakim> ok, jamesn
17:04:30 <chlane> zakim, next agendum
17:04:30 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3ud44RL -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:05:22 <chlane> 1714 Does aria-hidden obey DOM or AX tree ancestors?, james milestone this in next v of aria
17:06:35 <chlane> scott james 1.3 issue
17:06:49 <myasonik> myasonik has joined #aria
17:06:56 <chlane> 1712
17:07:06 <chlane> 1.4 mileston james
17:08:00 <chlane> menu item no pres children 1.4?
17:09:05 <chlane> scott heading inside menuitems
17:09:19 <chlane> prose for what is allowed as children
17:10:04 <chlane> buttons and tablists not explictly excluded or implicitly included
17:10:14 <myasonik> present+
17:10:26 <chlane> allowed child element, need prose
17:10:31 <joeyang_> present+
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17:10:38 <chlane> heading should not be one of them
17:10:51 <aaronlev> aaronlev has joined #aria
17:11:00 <chlane> requieed context role is not equivalent to allow the context role
17:11:11 <chlane> matt/scott
17:11:18 <chlane> triage
17:11:24 <chlane> scotto and sarah
17:11:40 <chlane> milestone for 1.4
17:11:42 <aaronlev> present+
17:11:49 <chlane> 1710
17:12:06 <chlane> Which roles serve as group names and descriptions?
17:12:16 <chlane> 1.4?
17:12:25 <chlane> scotto: related to accname stuff
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17:12:37 <chlane> jamesn:
17:12:40 <chlane> more infor
17:12:43 <chlane> info
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17:13:18 <chlane> 112
17:13:18 <Jem> present+
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17:13:28 <chlane>  Change mapping for generic
17:13:35 <chlane> scotto: div span mappings
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17:13:58 <Jaunita_George> Present+
17:14:32 <chlane> assign to matt lol
17:15:18 <chlane> 152 Tooltip def considerations
17:15:59 <chlane> melsumner: to not block prs broke this out
17:16:32 <chlane> 1707
17:16:38 <chlane> change events not defined
17:16:47 <chlane> Specifically call out expectations for dynamically updated descriptions
17:16:58 <chlane> implementers not aware
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17:17:17 <chlane> 1.4
17:17:22 <chlane> scotto: taking it
17:17:23 <StefanS> present+
17:17:38 <chlane> Expose a dialog as modal / non-modal #377
17:18:01 <chlane> 111,
17:18:13 <chlane>  Difference between combobox at an input or at another element
17:18:41 <chlane> valerie volunteered by james
17:19:06 <chlane> zakim, next agendum
17:19:06 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3CZNJ6G -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:19:18 <chlane> 1713
17:19:22 <chlane> jamesn: closing
17:19:43 <chlane> w3c/accname #150
17:19:53 <chlane> w3c/aria #1705
17:20:45 <chlane> melsumner: volunteered
17:21:12 <chlane> volunteed chlane mark
17:21:57 <chlane> zakim, next agendum
17:21:57 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:22:34 <chlane> dialogs next week
17:22:39 <chlane> zakim, next agendum
17:22:39 <Zakim> agendum 3 was just opened, chlane
17:23:03 <jamesn> zakim, close this item
17:23:03 <Zakim> agendum 3 closed
17:23:04 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:23:04 <Zakim> 5. hidden content - https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/57 [from jamesn]
17:23:06 <chlane> zakim, close this item
17:23:06 <Zakim> I do not know what agendum had been taken up, chlane
17:23:09 <chlane> zakim, next agendum
17:23:09 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- hidden content - https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/57 -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:23:18 <jacobo> present+
17:23:49 <chlane> When is hidden content taken into calculation of name and description? #57
17:24:04 <chlane> spec say only direct children will be exposed
17:32:44 <chlane> aaronlev: trying to detect doubly hidden stuff is a non starter
17:34:03 <chlane> if you point to something that is hidden you get all the ax tree content
17:34:14 <chlane> youll get all the hidden content
17:34:24 <chlane> expect for a wierd situation
17:34:40 <chlane> youll get both visible and invisible content
17:34:55 <chlane> matt, take out words about explicitly hidden
17:35:13 <chlane> programmatically knowable?
17:35:30 <chlane> aaronlev: not now, maybe tecnically possible
17:35:41 <jamesn> q+
17:36:08 <chlane> jamesn: assumes chromium is happy with it?
17:36:31 <chlane> jacobo: chrome is hiding things that are aria-hidden
17:36:41 <chlane> matt there was mention of aria hidden
17:36:49 <chlane> counterintuitive
17:36:58 <chlane> the purpose is to hide from AT
17:37:04 <chlane> I'm invisble
17:37:18 <chlane> in name calc is not correct
17:37:31 <chlane> jamesn:
17:37:57 <chlane> jcraig: display none could get shown
17:38:07 <jamesn> q-
17:38:30 <chlane> cyns: use case where people had labels for screen reader text ariahidden and offescreen
17:38:44 <chlane> as way to put it in the element without double reading
17:38:53 <chlane> used to be a commen patter
17:38:54 <chlane> n
17:38:57 <chlane> matt, why?
17:39:09 <chlane> offscreen is visible to accname
17:39:24 <chlane> display:none will prevent double reading
17:40:05 <chlane> aaronlev: matt, we went down roads, tooltip, decided, wording easier to have hidden stuff/not hidden stuff
17:40:24 <chlane> when you point to something that is hidden you get everything
17:40:41 <chlane> hairy
17:41:04 <chlane> aria-hidden misuse
17:41:17 <chlane> still need accessible name
17:41:29 <jamesn> q+ to ask how widely this has been shopped to other browsers
17:42:25 <chlane> aaronlev: when something gets focus labelledby references are still used
17:42:49 <chlane> matt chrome bug, does this
17:43:03 <chlane> aaronlev: will change this
17:43:38 <chlane> aaronlev: spec hard to understand
17:43:57 <chlane> matt is aria hidden completely ignorerd?
17:44:20 <chlane> aaronlev: is subtree hidden? set bit after that we include every node in acc name
17:44:58 <chlane> jamesn: aria hidden as child, seems useful, allows author to correct behavior
17:45:08 <chlane> authoring possibilities
17:45:22 <chlane> spec is already complex, this wont add to that
17:45:35 <chlane> is this implememtanle by other browser engines
17:45:49 <chlane> FF follows this behavior
17:45:57 <jamesn> ack me
17:45:57 <Zakim> jamesn, you wanted to ask how widely this has been shopped to other browsers
17:46:45 <chlane> jcraig: seems reasonable
17:46:49 <chlane> feesible
17:47:15 <chlane> what can be agreed on an easily implentable
17:47:25 <chlane> need to do full review, on his list
17:47:39 <chlane> jamesn: prefers consistency among user agents
17:48:35 <chlane> matt, we are making an edge case for aria-hidden
17:48:58 <chlane> except when it is inside a hidden element and referenced by a name calc
17:49:16 <chlane> scotto: aria-hidden="sometimes"
17:49:18 <chlane> lo
17:49:19 <chlane> l
17:49:37 <scotto> i appreciate that's how i was minuted
17:50:04 <jamesn> aria=hidden="🤷🏻‍♂️"
17:50:34 <chlane> two wrongs dont make a right, should try to simplify
17:51:32 <cyns> +1
17:51:35 <chlane> matt, we can do a better job of explaining the limitations of aria-hidden
17:52:49 <chlane> jamesn: accnname is written for implementers
17:52:59 <chlane> matt we live with the consequences
17:53:07 <chlane> cyns: canonical test cases
17:53:21 <chlane> matt bryan did that
17:53:35 <chlane> with the accname calculator
17:54:01 <chlane> bryan, test cases archive needs to be revisited
17:54:28 <chlane> MichaelC: did we evergreen accname pretty sure
17:54:42 <chlane> yes it is marked as a living standard
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17:55:31 <Matt_King> present+
17:55:44 <chlane> siri, hidden referring to visibility hidden and display;none, are you giving extra info to screen reader users now
17:55:52 <chlane> cyns: this is by design
17:56:01 <chlane> an important use case
17:56:18 <chlane> tooltips that don't need the user to diplay them
17:56:27 <chlane> scotto: repeat tooltip
17:56:29 <chlane> lol
17:57:28 <chlane> rrsagent, make minutes
17:57:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2022/03/24-aria-minutes.html chlane
18:02:11 <jacobo> It's been a please to talk to you on-line, bye!
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