16:51:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
16:51:45 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2021/07/29-aria-irc
16:51:47 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:51:49 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jamesn
16:51:50 <jamesn> chair: JamesNurthen
16:51:59 <jamesn> meeting: ARIA WG
16:52:51 <jamesn> agenda+ [New Issue Triage](https://bit.ly/3BGPi8N)
16:52:51 <jamesn> agenda+ [New PR Triage](https://bit.ly/2VhW9EH)
16:52:51 <jamesn> agenda+ [Meaty topic for Aug 19](https://bit.ly/3BLXoga)
16:52:51 <jamesn> agenda+ WG Member availability for meetings Aug 5 & Aug 12
16:52:51 <jamesn> agenda+ Authoring test updates
16:52:52 <jamesn> agenda+ [When is hidden content taken into calculation of name and description?](https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/57)
17:01:37 <Jemma> Jemma has joined #aria
17:02:00 <Jemma> present+
17:02:13 <jamesn> present+
17:04:23 <StefanS> StefanS has joined #aria
17:04:32 <harris> harris has joined #aria
17:04:40 <harris> present+
17:04:57 <StefanS> present+
17:05:15 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
17:05:23 <jamesn> https://w3c.github.io/aria/#enumeration-example
17:05:27 <jamesn> agenda+ https://w3c.github.io/aria/#enumeration-example
17:06:25 <spectranaut> spectranaut has joined #aria
17:08:02 <jcraig> scribe:jcraig
17:08:07 <jcraig> scribe: jcraig
17:08:14 <jcraig> zakim, take up item 1
17:08:14 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- [New Issue Triage](https://bit.ly/3BGPi8N) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:08:58 <jcraig> skipping the Author test case issues... agenda topic later
17:09:05 <jcraig> zakim, close item 1
17:09:05 <Zakim> agendum 1, [New Issue Triage](https://bit.ly/3BGPi8N), closed
17:09:06 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:09:06 <Zakim> 2. [New PR Triage](https://bit.ly/2VhW9EH) [from jamesn]
17:09:10 <jcraig> zakim, take up item 2
17:09:10 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- [New PR Triage](https://bit.ly/2VhW9EH) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:09:47 <jcraig> skipping the Author test case PRs...
17:09:49 <jcraig> zakim, close item 2
17:09:49 <Zakim> agendum 2, [New PR Triage](https://bit.ly/2VhW9EH), closed
17:09:50 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:09:50 <Zakim> 3. [Meaty topic for Aug 19](https://bit.ly/3BLXoga) [from jamesn]
17:09:51 <jcraig> zakim, take up item 3
17:09:52 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- [Meaty topic for Aug 19](https://bit.ly/3BLXoga) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:10:03 <jcraig> no deep dive fo the next 2 weeks
17:10:12 <jcraig> topic needed from August 19?
17:10:37 <jcraig> Bryan: aria-hidden?
17:10:52 <jcraig> jamesn: only if progress made on the proposals
17:11:35 <jcraig> Bryan: I plan to have spec text proposal before then
17:13:56 <jaunita_george> jaunita_george has joined #aria
17:14:36 <jcraig> jcraig: Group can commit to a date for deep dive for HIDDEN once the spec text proposal is in. Need to give implementors enough time to review and discuss internally before the meeting.
17:14:58 <jcraig> StefanS: Issue 559 is in the list of potential deep dive topics
17:15:15 <jcraig> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/559
17:15:49 <jcraig> another is the grid role issue https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1324
17:17:29 <jcraig> StefanS: I feel no consensus within group what grid is limited to... leaving open the problem authoring practice for layout grids... IMO should limit to interactive "data" grid. discourage layout grid.
17:18:54 <jcraig> jamesn: we punted 559 (SR "call-to-action" issue) to 1.4... August 19th or 26th seem reasonable for either.
17:19:10 <jcraig> StefanS: grid is higher priority for me
17:19:25 <jcraig> s/grid/grid #1324/
17:20:05 <jcraig> jamesn: August 19th: hidden
17:20:16 <jcraig> jamesn: August 26th grid #1324
17:20:46 <jamesn> sgenda?
17:20:51 <jamesn> agenda?
17:20:56 <jcraig> s/hidden/hidden #57 /
17:21:17 <jcraig> zakim, close item 3
17:21:17 <Zakim> agendum 3, [Meaty topic for Aug 19](https://bit.ly/3BLXoga), closed
17:21:18 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:21:18 <Zakim> 4. WG Member availability for meetings Aug 5 & Aug 12 [from jamesn]
17:21:20 <jcraig> zakim, take up item 4
17:21:20 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- WG Member availability for meetings Aug 5 & Aug 12 -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:22:21 <jaunita_george> 12th
17:22:23 <harris> don't care
17:23:05 <jcraig> Juanita: offer to chair
17:23:13 <jcraig> jamesn: Michael?
17:23:21 <jcraig> Off that week.
17:24:01 <jcraig> jamesn: I think we'd need a staff contact (MichaelC) or existing Co-Chair (JamesN or Joanie) to Chair the meeting
17:24:22 <jcraig> joanie: 12th it is
17:24:32 <jcraig> no meeting next week
17:24:38 <Jory> Jory has joined #aria
17:24:53 <jcraig> zakim, close item 4
17:24:53 <Zakim> agendum 4, WG Member availability for meetings Aug 5 & Aug 12, closed
17:24:54 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:24:54 <Zakim> 5. Authoring test updates [from jamesn]
17:24:58 <jcraig> zakim, take up item 5
17:24:58 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Authoring test updates -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:26:03 <jcraig> s/offer to chair/I can offer to chair/
17:26:20 <Jemma> I am interested in the session too. please count me in.
17:26:22 <jcraig> rrsagent. make minutes
17:26:26 <jcraig> rrsagent, make minutes
17:26:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/29-aria-minutes.html jcraig
17:26:31 <spectranaut> I'm also interested!
17:26:43 <jcraig> s/rrsagent. make minutes//
17:26:45 <jcraig> rrsagent, make minutes
17:26:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/29-aria-minutes.html jcraig
17:27:14 <jcraig> s/Off that week./MichaelC: I'm off that week./
17:27:33 <jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/labels/Author%20Tests
17:27:40 <Jemma> agenda?
17:28:17 <Jemma> zakim, take up item 5
17:28:17 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Authoring test updates -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:28:47 <jcraig> these are all the issues cyns logged for "authors MUST" tests
17:29:07 <WIlliamT_NFCU> WIlliamT_NFCU has joined #aria
17:29:11 <WIlliamT_NFCU> present+
17:29:11 <jcraig> s/these/jamesn: these/
17:29:24 <jcraig> existing PRs for 9 of the issues
17:29:53 <jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1582/commits/784f43cf5b3cf06f5c120c7e46239ab88c97100d
17:29:55 <jcraig> there are 7 that have no PR or assignee... Can we triage and assign today? Any volunteers?
17:30:10 <jcraig> Here's an example to show simplicity
17:30:56 <jcraig> Valerie: Curious to help with test writing, but know very little about it.
17:31:11 <jcraig> Harris: me too
17:31:14 <jcraig> jamesn: Joanie can help
17:31:32 <jcraig> joanie: I will share a link to the how-to write-up
17:32:07 <jcraig> harris: I'll wrap up several of these
17:32:15 <WIlliamT_NFCU> Which ones are high priority?
17:32:28 <jcraig> [side discussion about gh-pages scripting issue]
17:32:39 <Jemma> I was able to access wiki last week.
17:33:15 <jcraig> joanie: I can provide a link to the Test Writing how-to write-up, but the script is broken, so it is inncomplete
17:33:26 <jcraig> MichaelC: I will work to fix that script now.
17:33:35 <joanie> https://github.com/w3c/aria/tree/main/validator-tests
17:34:18 <jcraig> joanie: This link brings you to the ReadMe, but several of the links will break.... that should be resolved soon.
17:35:04 <jcraig> MichaelC: expect to be resolved today, perhaps within a few minutes.
17:35:23 <jcraig> WIlliamT_NFCU: What's the assignment process for test case authoring?
17:35:32 <jcraig> jamesn: assign the GH issue to yourself.
17:36:42 <jcraig> jamesn: William is a member of the W3C org, but not the ARIA team
17:36:50 <jaunita_george> jaunitageorge1
17:37:14 <WIlliamT_NFCU> WilliamTennisNFCU  github id
17:37:17 <jcraig> please share GH username here in IRC to be added to the team
17:37:46 <jcraig> Jaunita is not an org member yet
17:38:08 <Matt_King> Matt_King has joined #aria
17:38:19 <jcraig> s/Juanita/Jaunita/g
17:38:25 <Matt_King> present+
17:38:30 <jcraig> rrsagent, make minutes
17:38:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/29-aria-minutes.html jcraig
17:39:00 <jaunita_george> jaunita-george
17:39:35 <StefanS_> StefanS_ has joined #aria
17:41:09 <jcraig> Any of these https://github.com/search?l=&q=is:open+is:issue+repo:w3c/aria+created:%3E%3D2021-07-22+repo:w3c/aria+repo:w3c/accname+repo:w3c/core-aam&type=Issues
17:41:28 <jcraig> take assignment of any without a PR or existing PR
17:41:39 <jcraig> s/PR/assignee/
17:41:51 <jcraig> rrsagent, make minutes
17:41:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/29-aria-minutes.html jcraig
17:42:49 <jcraig> s/without a assignee or existing PR/without an assignee or existing PR/
17:44:18 <jcraig> zakim, close item 5
17:44:18 <Zakim> agendum 5, Authoring test updates, closed
17:44:19 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:44:19 <Zakim> 6. [When is hidden content taken into calculation of name and description?](https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/57) [from jamesn]
17:44:20 <jcraig> zakim, take up item 6
17:44:21 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- [When is hidden content taken into calculation of name and description?](https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/57) -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:44:55 <jcraig> deep dive on this topic August 19th. Bryan's PR expected by next week.
17:45:04 <jcraig> zakim, close item 6
17:45:04 <Zakim> agendum 6, [When is hidden content taken into calculation of name and description?](https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/57), closed
17:45:06 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
17:45:06 <Zakim> 7. https://w3c.github.io/aria/#enumeration-example [from jamesn]
17:45:09 <jcraig> zakim, take up item 7
17:45:09 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- https://w3c.github.io/aria/#enumeration-example -- taken up [from jamesn]
17:46:26 <Jemma> scribe: Jemma
17:46:51 <Jemma> joannie: will give backgroud info with example url.
17:47:00 <joanie> el.ariaBusy = "true";
17:47:00 <joanie> el.ariaBusy; // "true"
17:47:00 <joanie> el.removeAttribute("aria-busy");
17:47:00 <joanie> el.ariaBusy; // "false"
17:47:01 <joanie> el.setAttribute("aria-busy", "busy");
17:47:02 <joanie> el.ariaBusy; // "false"
17:47:12 <Jemma> s/backgroud/background
17:47:34 <jamesn> https://w3c.github.io/aria/#example-15
17:49:26 <jcraig> q+
17:49:40 <jcraig> q+ to mention the normative test in §6.3
17:50:29 <jcraig> ack me
17:50:29 <Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to mention the normative test in §6.3
17:50:46 <Jemma> joanne: I am wondering whether we miss normative text in spec or
17:50:58 <Jemma> ... user agents...
17:51:49 <cyns> cyns has joined #aria
17:51:49 <jcraig> https://w3c.github.io/aria/#enumerated-attribute-values
17:52:05 <jcraig> When the ARIA attribute definition includes a table enumerating the attribute's allowed values, that attribute is an enumerated attribute. Each value in the table is a keyword for the attribute, mapping to a state of the same name. When the values table notates one of the values as "(default)", that default value is the missing value default and invalid value default for the attribute.
17:53:11 <Jemma> jcraig: the spec is correct in that it is normative but we can adjust implementation and more.
17:53:57 <Jemma> ... we can also make this normative be less normative by the editor..
17:54:16 <Jemma> we can see whether test case is out of compliance or not.
17:54:36 <Jemma> jamesn: we can make this more explicit
17:55:20 <Jemma> joannie: I am hearing that example 16 can reflect the value aria pressed true..
17:55:55 <Jemma> jcraig: https://w3c.github.io/aria/#example-16
17:56:13 <Jemma> talking about "assignemtn of invalid "foo"'
17:56:49 <Jemma> joannie: some aria property value is role specific - aria orientation
17:57:31 <Jemma> ..user agent are also expected to evaluate this in regards to role?
17:57:51 <Jemma> jcraig : there is an issue was filed for this specific case.
17:58:00 <Jemma> joannie: third questions is
17:59:00 <Jemma> ...my question to Jamesn what are the implication of this in terns of getting aria 1.2
17:59:10 <Jemma> s/terns/terms/
18:00:02 <Jemma> jcraig: I could not find the issue regarding role speific default  value yet.
18:00:27 <Jemma> joannie: default value of aria read only is false
18:01:03 <Jemma> ... but false value can be changed by author.
18:01:27 <Jemma> then what value aria read only should return?
18:02:02 <Jemma> ..if attribute is missing or attribute does not make sense, I think null value should be returned.
18:02:46 <Jemma> jcraig: you can set the value and return the value. but nothing has not done in terms of implementation.
18:03:48 <Jemma> ...there is no behavior associated with returned value as james said.
18:04:17 <Jemma> cyn: ie. you added invalid value like checked for div, does it reflected?
18:04:32 <Jemma> jcraig: yes
18:04:58 <Jemma> cyn: that can be the same case for aria.
18:05:11 <Jemma> jcraig: that is the point I am getting at.
18:05:25 <cyns> I need to drop
18:05:26 <Jemma> joannie: how about validation aspect of that example?
18:05:48 <Jemma> jcraig:explaning the example for Jonnie's question
18:05:55 <Jemma> required value foo
18:06:33 <Jemma> jcraig: there is a validate in some context from teh example.
18:06:57 <Jemma> if we test it against div, with foo value, foo value will be returned.
18:08:30 <Jemma> jcraig: we can file the issue in the spec to make this assigned to me
18:08:52 <Jemma> and different user agents ..
18:09:47 <Jemma> joannie: will file role dependent value to be reflectable
18:10:42 <Jemma> in user agent implementation
18:10:54 <Jemma> s/a validate/validation
18:10:57 <Jemma> s/a validate/validation/
18:11:07 <Jemma> s/teh/the/
18:11:52 <Jemma> rrsagent, make minutes
18:11:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/29-aria-minutes.html Jemma
18:11:55 <jcraig> ACTION: Joanie to file Issue that normative text in 6.3 should be more explicit (e.g. more that one "User Agent MUST"… will be added). Follow-on may include new test case issues, and linked tracking issue in each User Agent bug tracking system (e.g. Bugzilla)
18:11:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2160 - File issue that normative text in 6.3 should be more explicit (e.g. more that one "user agent must"… will be added). follow-on may include new test case issues, and linked tracking issue in each user agent bug tracking system (e.g. bugzilla) [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2021-08-05].
18:13:07 <joanie> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1584
18:14:15 <jcraig> ACTION: Joanie to file issue that role-specific default (e.g. aria-orientation on scrollbar) should be addressed as reflectable in the IDL or in normative prose somehow
18:14:15 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2161 - File issue that role-specific default (e.g. aria-orientation on scrollbar) should be addressed as reflectable in the idl or in normative prose somehow [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2021-08-05].
18:14:45 <jcraig> rrsagent, make minutes
18:14:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/29-aria-minutes.html jcraig
18:25:34 <Jemma> s/joannie/Joanie/
18:25:42 <Jemma> rrsagent, make minutes
18:25:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/07/29-aria-minutes.html Jemma
19:09:16 <jongund> jongund has joined #aria