See also: IRC log
<Rich> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Jan/0035.html
<Rich> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Jan/0035.html
<scribe> scribe: matt_king
<MichaelC> scribeNick: mck
rs: we need more people helping
<Rich> https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements#application
rs: this allows us to test more than one element
<janina> scribe: Janina
mk: Asking sample table of what, exactly?
<joanie> Example 2 of these docs has an example of the wiki format: https://spec-ops.github.io/atta-api/index.html#teststatements
mk: So, a syntax for textable statements?
rs: yes
<mck> joanie: for method calls, you want to use result.
<mck> Rich, you and I need to talk
<joanie> https://spec-ops.github.io/atta-api/index.html
<mck> Joanie: link I pasted is a document I am editing.
<mck> Joanie: The biggest part of the automated testing is the infra to do it.
<mck> Joanie: all the infra for doing the tests is described in the first link I pated in.
<joanie> https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements
<mck> Joanie: the roadblock to entry is the complexity of the syntax for testable statements.
<joanie> https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements#Overview
<joanie> RESULT then an expression or method call (e.g., Selection.clear_selection())
<mck> Joanie: looking at Rich's testable statement contributions, sees some problems. Happy to fix them.
<mck> rs: Do not see any atk methods in the things I wrote.
<joanie> Value.atk_value_get_minimum_value
<mck> Joanie: maybe from someone else. In the value interface, for instance, I see some mistakes.
<joanie> Value.get_minimum_value()
<mck> rs: The important thing is that we have documentation how to do this.
<Rich> https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements#application
<mck> rs: Not sure wht to do with UIA. In mapping, we do not say which interface is using a property.
<mck> We need to indicate the interface
<mck> Jospeh: will open issue
<mck> rs: Same people are doing all the work like in aria 1.0. We need more people engaged.
<mck> jg: are all the testable statement in this one wiki page?
<mck> rs: yes.
<mck> jg: And these are only for what is new in 1.1?
<mck> rs: yes.
<mck> Joseph: we didn't test UIA in 1.0.
<JF> Rich, I had offered 2 volunteers a year ago. ONe has subsequently left Deque, but was there ever any outreach to the other volunteer?
<mck> rs: yes. So, UIA may need more testable statements for 1.1. But, we do not need them for 1.1 cr.
<mck> rs: Is there another report that goes out after 1.1 that says how well the spec is supported.
<mck> MC: not part of the process, but it is a useful thing to do.
<Zakim> clown, you wanted to ask why does the active descendant ("bob") have a tabindex="0"
<mck> Joseph: Noticed in application example, activedescendant bob has tabindex 0.
<mck> rs: good point.
mk: Only available for ATK now?
rs: yes
mk: Someone at Ms working on it
joania: Believe Matt is asking about ATTA
mk: Allows test to be run against a specific aapi?
joanie: Yes
joania [explains the logic train in ATTA]
<mck> mk: Which platforms do we have ATTA for?
joanie: Everything AT does except user presentation
<mck> rs: only ATK now. UIA in the works.
<Zakim> joanie, you wanted to ask for volunteers to compare https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Changes with the statements page
<mck> rs: Who else can help write test statements?
<joanie> https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements#Overview
<joanie> https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements
<joanie> https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#changelog
<joanie> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Changes
<mck> Joanie: We need to make sure that our scope of testable statements is complete.
<mck> We need help compaing 1.0 and 1.1 to make sure we have all the changes covered.
<mck> Joanie: need to compare all 1.0 UA normative statements with all 1.1 UA normative statements.
<MichaelC> ACTION: cooper to make sure the content at https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements fully covers the changes indicated at https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Changes [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/01/19-aria-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2133 - Make sure the content at https://www.w3.org/wiki/aria_1.1_testable_statements fully covers the changes indicated at https://www.w3.org/wai/aria/wiki/aria_1.1_changes [on Michael Cooper - due 2017-01-26].
<mck> jf: A year ago I brought forward some volunteers from our India team. Not sure what happened there.
<mck> jf: Not sure there was adequate outreach and management support.
<mck> rs: not sure there were adequate skills.
<mck> jf: is there a specialized skill set for writing a testable statement?
<mck> Joanie: let me pull up an example.
<joanie> https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements#Example
<mck> jf: Seem there will be a bit of a cadence and that there is a pattern to them.
<mck> Joanie: dead simple example is what I just pasted in
<joanie> https://spec-ops.github.io/atta-api/index.html
<mck> Joanie: being fmailiar with the a11y apis is necessary.
<mck> jf: What do you need them to write?
<Rich> https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements#application
<mck> Joanie: the html, but based on what is in the spec.
<mck> jf: let me see if I can find some candidates.
<mck> Unfortunately, I can not manage them.
<mck> Joanie: we need people who can work independntly
<mck> we don't have cycles to manage/teach
<mck> jf: At the start, even SMEs may need some mentoring.
<mck> rs: Once we have the ATTA fully vetted and have the 1.1 test done, one place your team could help might be to fill in the gap of getting everything from 1.0 testable as well.
mk: Not speaking up for this because aleady overcommitted to get AAPG out on the same timeframe
<mck> jg: I hired a new student yesterday to help with the IA2 ATTA
<mck> rs: Have your sutdents worked with COM interface
<mck> jg: It's has been years; it is rare skill today.
<mck> jg: If we need more help with this, I coudl redirect more of my students in this direction.
<mck> jg: do you want new people working on this same wiki page?
<mck> Or, do you need a gatekeepr?
<mck> \rs: that would be a good idea.
<mck> Joanie: Idea of putting the statements on the wiki was to lower barrier to entry.
<mck> side effect is that Shane has to interpret the mediawiki code into statements.
<mck> if you have students who can write code, it would be better for them to write the test files instead of in the wiki.
<mck> jg: if not in the wiki, how do we know which ones are done?
mcK: Isn't the reviewer function one of the prime reasons for using a wiki?
joanie: Believe files are easire to read
<mck> Joanie: recommending that we start using a git repo instead of the wiki page.
<joanie> https://github.com/Spec-Ops/web-platform-tests/tree/aria-atta-support/wai-aria/aria11
<mck> jg: It started on the wiki because that is what Fred was doing.
<mck> then Shane wrote code to do interpretation.
<mck> rs: Joanie, do you want us to stop working on the wiki?
<mck> Joanie, we need consensus on this?
<mck> jg: We do have anissue of using a git repo in terms of push access for wide varieyt of contributors.
mck: Question to Jon: Is it a big deal to clone and work off the clone?
<mck> mk: There isn't really an access issue if using git is there? Anyone can clone in w3c repo.
<mck> jg: What repo are the test files in?
<mck> MC: Evenutally will go to web platform test repo.
<mck> But, we wanted to get it figured out before we commited anything there. Need to coordinate with Shane.
<mck> rs: Joanie, what is your recommendation for how to do this?
<mck> I want to knwo what is best.
<mck> Joanie: My recommendation is not a technical one. I enourage you all to do whatever works best for others. Eventually, we will get it translated.
<mck> rs: Jon, just do it on any wiki.
<mck> rs: As long a it looks like what we have, we will make it work.
<mck> rs: Mid feb, I will be out of pocket for 3 to 4 weeks.
<mck> jg: OK, I will move my resource to testing for now and away from authroing practice.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.148 of Date: 2016/10/11 12:55:14 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/have a tabindex/has a tabindex/ Succeeded: s/with comm interface/with COM interface/ Succeeded: s/I want to do/I enourage you all to do/ Found Scribe: matt_king Found ScribeNick: mck Found Scribe: Janina Inferring ScribeNick: janina Scribes: matt_king, Janina ScribeNicks: mck, janina Present: Joanmarie_Diggs MichaelC Jason_Duan Janina Rich_Schwerdtfeger MCK jongund JamesNurthen MichielBijl Joseph_Scheuhammer Bryan_Garaventa Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Jan/0035.html Found Date: 19 Jan 2017 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2017/01/19-aria-minutes.html People with action items: cooper WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]