The Easiest Move Of The Winter
“It would be pretty easy negotiation. All I want it the opportunity to come to spring training with the chance to compete for a starting job. I want to pitch. I wouldn’t go to a team I didn’t have a chance to make.”
The Mariners finished the season by giving Anthony Vazquez the ball every sixth day. In terms of upper level pitching depth, they have a guy who has never pitched in the minor leagues and a guy who spent most of last year in low-A ball. The guy penciled in as their current #4 starter struck out just 10.4% of the batters he faced last year.
The Mariners have a massive, glaring hole at the back-end of their rotation. Danny Hultzen and James Paxton might be able to help at some point next year, but you certainly don’t want to come to camp needing them to make the team. The organization needs arms who can hold down the fort until the kids are ready, and won’t cost much to serve as placeholders until they’re ready.
All Moyer wants is a minor league contract with an invite to spring training and a chance to make a big league club. Yes, he’s 49 and he throws a fastball that averages 81 MPH, but Moyer has never stopped being a decent Major League pitcher. In 2010, his K/BB ratio was 3.15 – Felix Hernandez’s career mark is 2.98. He’s not anything close to a savior, but when he’s healthy, he’s still a viable starting picher, and Safeco Field would mask his one significant flaw – giving up the long ball.
He still lives in Seattle. He wants to pitch in the Major Leagues next year. The Mariners need pitching depth.
This should be the most obvious transaction of the winter. Sign Jamie Moyer.
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Actually, isn’t it the case that you SHOULD have 6+ potential starters? Because of injuries?
After Bedard’s year, what will a contract to sign him look like? I know that it wouldn’t be as cheap as Moyer, but bring back both Moyer and Bedard could be a way to fill out the rotation again. Considering that Bedard was not very good in Boston, I could see the Sox not being in a hurry to bring him back.
The part where he’s a 49 year old coming off a year missed due to injury. I don’t actually care if they give him a NRI, but if they’re counting on him to do anything much I’ll be disappointed.
No, I’m assuming that Z will be able to come up with more useful options than Moyer, even on the cheap.
I guess the part where I disagree is with “decent upside.”
No, I’m assuming that Z will be able to come up with more useful options than Moyer, even on the cheap.
So, sure, let’s assume he can bring in more potential starters for cheap (though you’d think other GMs might have a clue too, considering how many teams roll out crappy 4/5s, but whatever). And that’s bad how? Again, this is not either/or. If he has more decent back end starters than you’d expect, great, Tacoma wins the PCL. Or maybe he trades Vargas in a package for a good 3B.
I think its a no-brainer, he’s holds the franchise record for victories with 145, if nothing else he can retire a Mariner and help coach the kids that hopefully will beat him out of a roster spot.
Ahem.
NRI.
Multiple options for starting pitching. (And I mean having six or more options–having just five leaves you vulnerable when injuries hit)
Put two and two together and they’re certainly not COUNTING on him for anything.
Think it through.
Yes? And?
NRI.
Multiple options for five slots.
Put two and two together.
If skeptics are just saying, “Don’t get your hopes up,” fine, we get it. Moyer might suck. And if he makes the team but then sucks? Let’s cross that bridge when we come to it. Cutting a 50 year-old Moyer should be easier than cutting a 40 year-old who many considered the very best player we ever had. I think Z can handle it.
“If he sucks, you dump him.
If he doesn’t…what’s the problem?”
Somehow I have a feeling that the FO would grant him a spot on the roster regardless just to get more fans in the seats.
It’ll be 2010 Griffey all over again, and the Mariners would be better to not go down that road.
Moyer left the Mariners in good spirit. It would be best to leave it that way.
Somehow I have a feeling that the FO would grant him a spot on the roster regardless just to get more fans in the seats.
As opposed to putting a better player on the roster who helps you win games?
Here’s a news flash: the Mariners aren’t going to get fans in the seats again until they actually win games. And Moyer’s asking for an NRI. Again, non-roster invite. As in “not guaranteed to make the roster unless the team thinks he’d help”.
It’ll be 2010 Griffey all over again
Right, because a FREAKIN’ NRI is just the same as a guaranteed contract to someone who was known to have some pretty massive sulks.
I think the FO would simply use Moyer as a marketing gimmick to get more fans to the park (Moyer bobblehead night anyone?).
He would get to play even if he’s can’t pitch well to save his life.
The Mariners don’t need any more distractions like that.
They should stick with the rebuilding plan and get try to get younger every year.
As a couch, I have no issues with Moyer. But as a player, he would be little more than a distraction that would take time away from younger players who could have a future.
Providing it’s a minor league contract I’m ok with giving Moyer a shot in spring training to earn a spot in the rotation. The operative word there is “earn.” I don’t want to see him given a roster spot primarily to be a mentor to the younger pitchers. If that’s going to be his role then hire him as a coach.
What part of “its not either/or” do you not understand??? You don’t have to abandon the rebuilding plan in order to pursue this! That’s the whole *point* of the NRI! Hell, even if he makes the club out of ST (because he’s actually thrown good games) it doesn’t mean abandoning the plan! And your comment about getting younger is full of holes – look at some of the guys we had in the Outfield this year that were young, and SUCKED. You can be bad no matter your age or experience-level. The difference with Moyer is that we have a track-record to go on. The guy missed 2010 but has not been a major injury risk during most of his career and plenty of guys come back from TJ surgery and have pitched well (isn’t one of the WS starters a guy who had TJ surgery?) Lastly, no team has won the World Series with an entire roster of rookies. It takes a blend of talent, skill, and experience – “getting younger” is not the same thing as “getting better”. Moyer gives us a *chance* at getting better, and if he sucks he doesn’t cost us anything.
Also, for those talking about Moyer “taking away” from another player’s time: A starting pitcher is on the mound every 5 days. This is a lot fewer games & innings than a position player (a la Griffey). And if he gets bumped to the bullpen, its still not a whole lot of games or innings; since he’d probably slot into long relief or a lefty-specialist role.
Moyer has never shown any predilection towards histrionics or egoism like Griffey. And even though he’s beloved, he doesn’t have the same magical pull with the fans. Cutting him would be easier and go far more smoothly and Griffey. And don’t forget you’re dealing with Wedge, not Wak, as well as a more-experienced Jack Z. The Griffey thing had to have been awkward as Z was a johnny-come-lately and Griff was a living legend who had a really tight relationship with Z’s bosses. Now Z’s more entrenched in the organization and has a sterner Manager as well.
One more time: I don’t see how taking a chance on Moyer hurts the M’s ability to play the kids or develop other talent.
If you think the team would sign Jamie Moyer in an attempt to sell more tickets, you’re:
A) ignorant about how baseball teams in general – and the Mariners in specific – operate.
B) hilariously overestimating Jamie Moyer’s appeal at the box office.
Stop listening to sports radio and realize that the Mariners aren’t putting together a crappy product of popular players in an attempt to swindle you out of your money.
Dave, I like the idea, but could we sign Randy Johnson instead?
And I would buy a ticket to see him pitch.
I’m surprised. One would think anyone who’d watched this team this past August and September would understand the folly of having exactly enough starters. You lose one – for ANY reason – and you end up running a guy like Vasquez out there repeatedly because you have no real options.
I believe the Moyers are actually down around San Diego these days, as Dillon is at UC Irvine. For what it is worth, from Larry Stone today:
Moyer, a free agent, is currently throwing two bullpen sessions a week (he’s up to 60 pitches) and is about ready to showcase his stuff for interested teams. Could he wind up back in Seattle, where his career — and the family’s community outreach — flourished?
“He’s leaving all options open,” Karen [Moyer] said. “I know there’s probably mutual interest. As I always did, I’ll stay out of that.”
Once upon a time (1993 or 94), Lou Piniella walked out to the mound and told Randy Johnson, “You can be a dominant pitcher or you can be a winning pitcher. Your choice.” And then walked back to the dugout. King Felix seems to have figured out things but I’ve always wondered what would happen if Moyer’s smarts about pitching could be combined with King Felix’s talent. And now we have Pineda and some others. Yeah, that’s what coaches are for, I get that. But he still could be a good influence on the kids and he’d STILL have to earn a spot out of spring training. Get it done, Jack.
Maybe Moyer could show Pineda how to effectively throw a changeup.
Of course Moyer could throw a fastball and Pineda would probably think it was a changeup. 😀
I like this for another reason. Ichiro would feel like a kid again. 🙂
Oh, they’ll be crappy, but hopefully less crappy than Moyer.
I think our disagreement is over whether or not Moyer is a decent back-end starter.
2009, 162 innings, 0.4 WAR
2010, 111 innings, 0.3 WAR
2011, Arm surgery
2012, Turns 49.
If there’s a reason to expect Moyer to be better than 0 WAR in 2012, it’s not obvious to me and someone is going to need to point it out for me. I don’t see him as adding depth because replacement level players are by definition easy to aquire when you want one. And there isn’t no cost to aquiring Moyer, he’ll take up a spot on the 40 man roster, he’ll get some fraction of a million dollars, and there’s some chance that he’ll baffle some minor leaguers in spring training and then get hammered in a couple ML starts and lose those games for us, while I don’t see hardly any chance that he will surprise us and become valuable. If someone wants to explain to me why he might be good, I’d be glad to listen.
Moyer doesn’t take up a spot on the 40 man roster until he makes the team.
Also…
Pitcher A, 2009-2010 xFIPs: 4.67, 4.30
Pitcher B, 2009-2010 xFIPs: 4.60, 4.45
Pitcher A is Moyer. Pitcher B is Vargas. There’s your arugment right there. I’m not saying Moyer = Vargas, more that when he was healthy, he pitched as well as Vargas did if you looked at independent pitching measures. His 2010 was hurt by a very poor strand rate. That makes sense, because Moyer’s not that different than Vargas: a flyball-prone LHP who lives on command and junkballing more than blowing fastballs past hitters, and Vargas, like Moyer, is helped out a lot with Safeco.
Really, this is a very low-risk move, compared to, say, sending a few million to someone like Bedard or Rich Harden, who have much better raw stuff and arms made out of glass.
Eh. I suppose. Still, 49, arm surgery. I guess it just depresses me to be setting sights this low before the off-season even gets underway.
Yeah, but there is a reason why Harden and Bedard will command a greater salary this year; they might be good. Moyer is very low risk, very low reward, and I don’t see that as a great fit for the M’s, who are going to need to get lucky with some guys if they’re going to do anything interesting next year.
I don’t really see it as a big deal either way, you’re right that if he sucks they’ll just cut him. I just don’t see this as a step in the right direction.
. He’s been above average twice since 2004, last time was 2008.
In 2009 he was 12-10.
Pitcher wins and losses aren’t a good measure of performance. You may remember Felix Hernandez winning the AL Cy Young Award with a 13-12 record.
If all he wants is a chance to prove himself, why not? He’ll fill a hole they have now plus provide some veteran leadership to the younger players.