Kevin Frandsen
Sometimes, the timing of stuff like this is hilarious. You know that I’m in favor of acquiring a new utility infielder while Hannahan is on the shelf, rather than just giving the job to Tui or Josh Wilson. And, as we mentioned, the move to 12 pitchers means that it would be very helpful if that guy could also play some outfield. Additionally, since Hannahan’s injury isn’t likely to keep him out forever, you’d ideally like to get a guy with who could be optioned to the minors after the team gets healthy again, providing depth and a short term fill-in without forcing them to make a move for a guy they might lose in a month.
Enter the Giants, and their willingness to trade Kevin Frandsen. Frandsen fits every aspect of what the M’s should be looking for to a tee. He’s a middle infielder who has played everywhere, including the outfield, and can handle himself defensively all around the diamond. He’s a high contact hitter who has flashed some potential in the minors, and was a pretty good prospect before he tore his ACL in 2008. He’s got some gap power, so he’s not totally useless at the plate. He makes the league minimum, he’s 28, and he has an option remaining. And the Giants are actively shopping him around the league.
Sseriously, this is a no-brainer. Frandsen is an upgrade over the current options while waiting for Hannahan to recover. He gives the team a legitimate reserve middle infielder, something they don’t really have right now, and if you want to give Hannahan the job back when he’s healthy, Frandsen can go to Tacoma and serve as depth while waiting for Jack Wilson to get hurt. He is the ideal candidate for the job, and the Giants are trying to trade him.
Seems like the most obvious move ever. Let’s hope it happens.
And for those of you who want Tui on the team “for his offense”, CHONE projects Frandsen and Tui to be basically equal offensively. Frandsen is the better defender by a couple hundred miles.
So what would the M’s have to give up to get him?
Not much. The M’s gave up Morse to get Langerhans and a mediocre Double-a reliever to get Hannahan, and Frandsen is basically in that same category. You’re looking at some kind of marginal prospect.
Does Tui count as a “marginal prospect?”
He’s better than that (even if he’s not a shortstop). You won’t have to give up Tui to get Frandsen. Think someone more like Ryan Feierabend or something.
Clearly this is meant to be. I just got Frandsen’s signature at the Giants/Reds game over the weekend in Arizona. I had no idea who he was and kept saying his name over and over to myself before I was able to write it down for later research.
Get him, Ms!
What about Ramon Vasquez?? Vasquez is a player the Bucs are trying to release or trade, had a .346 wOBA in 2008 and he can play slightly below average IF defense at each position. He has not played much OF like Frandsen but has alot more ML experience and thus more reliable defensive data on him. He could even be free if the Bucs release him.
Ramon Vasquez once played for the Tacoma Rainiers, so I have a soft spot for him, but there’s no way he’s better than Frandsen for this role.
Frandsen’s played more OF, and Vasquez USED to be a handy utility IF… now, I’m not sure how much better he’d be at SS than Tui. He’s well over 30, his projections show a solidly below average bat as well. Even if Ramon’s free, I’ll give up the marginal prospect for the superior player.
Frandsen can also play the OF. 12 pitchers coming north means no Langerhans. No Langerhans means another OF-capable body is required.
When has Frandsen played the OF?? I was looking up his minor league splits he’s only played the IF positions. Where is this idea coming from that he can play the OF?? Maybe he did during spring training or something?
Link: http://tinyurl.com/cyjh3g
You could click on the link in the post and see that he’s played 120 innings of OF in the majors.
So he’s never played OF ever in the minors (where he’s spent the majority of his career) and played 120 inning in the majors and that convinces you he can play the OF adequately?? This guy is a utility IF that has played the equivalent 13-14 games in the OF since 2005, color me not convinced. I’m not saying Ramon Vasquez is the answer but Frandsen is far from the slam dunk, especially since Vasquez may be free.
Tui is going to make the team out of spring. Bank on it.
Well, since I think we need two backup infielders, and both can play some outfield, why not Fransden and Tui?
Frandsen’s UZ/150 in his S.S.S. of OF in the majors is equal to that of Michael Saunders, who has ONLY played in the outfield and is considered more than capable in the corners in his own right.
My bro-in-law is a huge Giants fan and put me on to this kid 4-5 years ago when we were talking baseball. He said Frandsen was the future at 2B and that he looked like a .290/.340/.400 type kid. This is the same bro-in-law that saw something in Lincecum a few years ago in the draft and thought he was going to be the best pitcher in the NL. He doesn’t exagerrate all Giants though and said Cain was “okay”, so I’m guessing that there really is something special to this Frandsen guy, I mean he was a top 5 prospect for them, not too long ago.
Let me put it to you like this, Vazquez in 2008 put up 3/4 of his numbers kicking our ass, remove his Babe Ruth impression against the Mariners and he was AAAA quality at best… One word for you, “context”.
One more thing about Frandsen, he was considered to have a tick above average range in the infield and his glove was considered more than capable of making up the distance between his range and being a special defender. In other words, Frandsen is every bit as good defensively as Hannahan, plays the outfield corners good enough that S.F. decided to run him back out there for not embarrassing himself “12 times”, so unless his very last stint in the outfield was Glenallen-Hill-Bad than I’m guessing he could make it on the Mariners as the number 1 infield reserve and number 5 outfielder.
I was on this when I saw it too, Dave. I was counting the seconds until you threw something up on USSM about it in fact.
Bottomline, short of getting Alfredo Amezaga, Jerry Hairston, Wilson Betemit, or some other super sub not named Willie F-in’ Bloomquist, than Frandsen is the best option we could get, really. If Wilson takes a serious injury, Frandsen could be a great long term replacement until we unbury ourselves from what I think will be a wasted $10MM on Jack Wilson.
Ok, so let’s say Vazquez is free. Why do you want him? Batting projections are in the .300 wOBA range, his career wOBA is .300, and he’ll turn 34 next year. Not bad at 2B assuming his range doesn’t decline, SS is highly questionable.
Overall, that sounds like a bit better, but 5 years older, Josh Wilson.
roster space
12 pitchers
8 fielders (Ich, Gut, M.B., Lopie, Ja. Wilson, Chone, Kotch, Moore)
1 DH (Griffey)
1 reserve catcher (Johnson)
1 “real” outfielder (Byrnes)
this leaves 2 reserves, saying Frandsen is the backup infielder, leaves one really.
To put Tui on the team would mean to boot Garko to AAA (I believe he has an option, however I’m stupid as to whether we would have to use waivers to get him down to Tacoma since his contract was a ML contract and not a split contract). Not to meantion that Sweeney has not played himself off the team in any regard also, so it’s better to use Tui’s option and kick him to AAA for another year or until the roster sorts itself out/Jack makes another trade and space is created on the ML roster.
If all this maneuvering looks likely to cost us Langerhans, is there any chance we can just trade him straight up for Frandsen?
That should be 58.1 innings in the outfield, yes?
In 2008, Vazquez hit .459/.488/.730 in 43 plate appearances againat Seattle. That accounted for 21% of his totals. So that’s what I mean about context.
Handy stat of the day: Vazquez hit almost 80 OPS points higher against sub. 500 teams.
While .500+ teams kept him to a .764, he did have an outlier of 7 BB in 23 PAs against Minnesota which without those walks, would have pushed him to sub .700 OPS territory, or there abouts.
Also consider that in 2008 his home park was Arlington, yeah. In Arlington he posted a slash-line of .308/.389/.449/.838. He is not good, he was marginal and padding stats against our crap staff of Batista, Silva, Washburn, and assorted bullpen arms, again 21% of the time he was hitting.
Too funny, Dave…every time you post a thread on one of these ironically-available-guy-we-could-really-use type of players, I always expect the genie to suddenly pop out of that old bottle that’s been setting up on the shelf. 🙂
I know this defies logic, but does anyone realize that when they suggest Ramon Vazquez, it means 3 things.
1) We would be taking a guy to be our backup for two guys (Jack and Chone) that have had major problems staying on the field in recent seasons, and who wasn’t good enough to be the backup in Pittsburgh for Andy LaRoche, Bobby Crosby, Delwyn Young, et al.
2) This is a guy that got beat out for the utility infield position by Ronny Cedeno.
3) He is getting cut by the damn Pirates. If they don’t want you and it’s not financially related, than you really, really, and I emphasize REALLY suck.
Hu an interesting possibility as well.
I’m sure Vasquez doesn’t have any options left, which is another knock against him.
If the M’s are going to give up a guy in a trade to the Giants, the obvious candidate is Mike Sweeney — he’s totally their kind of player. Of course, to trade him the M’s would have to first sign him.
We already have Hu’s doppleganger in both Woodward and Jo. Wilson. Paying to get Hu, even a marginal prospect, considering he has less experience than Woodward and Wilson, and has primarily spent all of his time at SS, would be counter-productive.
Dave, wouldn’t you rather have Joaquin Arias? I know a bunch of Rangers fans would!
I’m not at all sure what you’re trying to say here or what your point is. So are you saying that he didn’t actually get those hits against Seattle? Or that he didn’t actually receive those walks against Minnesota? Or that we should start looking at really really small sample sizes and/or cut certain results out of a player’s playing record?
Why can’t we start the season with tui? It’s not like Wilson is hurt and Hannahan isn’t supossed to out for that long anyways. This is a chance to see what tui can do and thats if he even gets any playing time. If hannahan is out for a long time and tui isn’t working out then make the move. When is tui ever going to get a chance to play with our current roster?
This isn’t Little League, where you’re trying to get everyone on the field.
what are you talking about Nye?
what is so good about Hannahan that we should wait for hi to return? he plays third, little experience elsewhere, and can’t hit his way out of a paper bag (ala Langerhans)…trade Hannahan to the Giants.
I’m talking about not caring less if Tui “gets a chance to play”?
We already know what he can do. Hit, some, and suck at defense. The Mariners don’t need to make their team worse to find this out.
Also, capitalization and spelling will make you a bit less unintelligible.
From everything I’ve read Wak has been impressed with Tui’s defense this spring and that’s one of the reasons he’s still on the team.
I’m not too excited about Hannahan being the backup at SS for Jack Wilson. Frandsen may be a better bet even after Jack H is healthy.
Oh baby that was filthy rostorbator lol. But if we acquired a guy like Frandsen, I don’t see why we would even have the need for a guy like Hannahan. I see the need kinda, but I see giving a guy like Tui more experience as being more beneficial.
I think Kevin Frandsen makes a world of sense. I just wonder what would be the price tag. My gut feeling says Ryan Langerhans won’t do it.
Ezequiel Carrera, maybe? Or would the Giants want a big leaguer in return, more likely?
But I’m trolling Yahoo! Sports news in bated breath and expectation for that deal now…Dave does have a bit of a knack for earmarking guys that we could find useful, and the club concurring.
I say we give up a veteran big leaguer with some power for Fransden: Mike Sweeney.
I like Jeff Sullivan’s take on the Hannahan/Tuiasosopo/Wilson situation:
And by that time Hannahan will be healthy, or you can make a move then.
So look, rosterbator, we get that you want to throw out part of the sample. I don’t agree that that’s particularly wise (this is always the “Ryan Franklin had a great start if you throw out the inning he allowed four home runs” kind of trouble).
But this whole thing you’re doing here, with the attitude and the “but you are the type of person that would let those two weeks dictate a decision” is not cool.
There’s a better way to make this argument.
He was always solid for me in Baseball Mogul 2006 so if he’s free let’s give him a shot… can’t be too much worse than anyone else (more or less) freely available.
Although in retrospect (and after burning off a couple of the beers) I suppose it was more like BBM ’07 or ’08 that he was valuable and he won’t be technically “freely available”, the Giants will demands something, but Christ we’re talking about a month’s worth of utility infielder’s PA’s here, let’s not pay too much for a small marginal benefit. Goodnight.
Another option: Dodgers are shopping Chin-lung Hu
Chin-lung Hu (fangraphs) is 26 and scouts always raved about his defense at short. Frankly, Hu’s bat is equal to Jack Wilson’s. If his glove lives up to its reputation, he’d be ideal.
Hu’s another interesting option, but I suspect he might cost more than a player like Frandsen would to acquire.
Of the two ideas that have been posted in the last few days(Guzman and Frandsen). I personally would rather try to acquire Guzman. Mainly because the moves being discussed are not moves for the future. Its to help the team THIS year.
Guzman has been a player at the Major League Level that isn’t going to kill you with his defense and hasn’t been a liability with the bat either.
The only thing is can the M’s get the Nats to eat a majority of Guzman’s contract
Well, I’m sold.
I was hoping the M’s would take him and off the Giants’ hands this off-season. Not because I dislike either of them, but because I know the Mariners would value them properly, unlike Brian Sabean and Bruce Bochy.
The more I think about this the more I think I’m coming around to Jeff Sullivan’s position. In the abstract, yeah, you’d like to maximize every opportunity you can find to get even a fraction of a win. And on paper, or in the ether, you can. But in the real world, there’s a lot of friction involved in any transaction and that tends to soak up small gains to the point where it’s not really worth it. There may be an opportunity cost to doing nothing, but there’s also a cost to doing something, anything — you’re juggling the roster (on both the M’s and potentially on the Rainiers), giving Wak one more thing he has to think about and provide input on, etc. And all for a pretty small upside in the best case over what you have right now.
I think they’re probably also wanting to keep salary headroom (whatever they have left, which may not be as much as we’d like) available in case they want to go for a midseason acquisition.
I can see it now. Wak posts a lineup, and Shannon Drayer immediately twitters, “Hu’s on first.”
If Lu can be had, it would most likely be worth a decent prospect to land him. The Mariners need a guy like that right now in their system. I could say the same for Frandsen.
Question to the more informed about the Mariners: Would you insert Frandsen into the starting lineup instead of Hannahan, if they were both healthy and Wilson was not?
Frandsen was traded to Boston yesterday, so I guess we should look for another option. D’oh!