Game 106, Mariners at Twins
French vs Liriano, 11:10 am.
Know who has the lowest xFIP of any starter in baseball? Not Cliff Lee, not Roy Halladay, not Josh Johnson – it’s Francisco Liriano. He’s running up nearly four strikeouts for every walk while also getting groundballs on 52 percent of his balls in play, a lethal combination that makes it hard to do much against him. To make things even more ridiculous, he’s given up just two home runs all year. He’s really good.
Luke French does not lead the AL in xFIP, or anything else. Prepare for a beat down.
Ichiro, RF
Figgins, 2B
Gutierrez, CF
Branyan, DH
Kotchman, 1B
Josh Wilson, SS
Tuiasosopo, 3B
Saunders, LF
Johnson, C
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90 Responses to “Game 106, Mariners at Twins”
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So how many people here think this is Wak’s last game? I think so. This team is the absolute worst I have seen in a very long time. Even if completely and totally symbolic, a move at the top has to be made.
And let me be the first to say that Z has lost my respect for the way he’s allowed the team in general and coaches to drift without any semblance of support…I had thought Armstrong and Lincoln were to blame for this year’s travails, but I think Z has to field his share of responsibility for what happened. What was a fun team to watch last year has been made into a complete and total mockery.
Z doesn’t manage the team, Wak does. It’s really not Z’s job to micromanage things, however it is his call whether or not to remove Wak from the hot seat based on his performance. I don’t blame Wak a whole lot considering he was thrown a roster of shit and told to bake a cake with it. Well, that’s not entirely true, it’s the poor performance of “proven” players that killed us this year.
And oh by the way, can we get rid of Tui yet? He’s been a AAAA player for years now and hasn’t shown diddly at the major league level.
There’s no probably about it…
Personality-wise, Sweeney would be a great fit. I think he’d be an excellent bench coach.
But I cringe when I think about him advising young hitters. Can you picture a lineup of nine guys, all flailing away at pretty much any pitch within reach?
I think you may be overstating it … but I understand your point. I think AA 1/2 player is more accurate. He’s not a ballplayer. The “sanctity” of the 40-man roster must be penetrated and he must be removed.
Yes, I can … I think I have seen it all year.
Actually, not so long ago (geologically speaking), Sweeney was considered one of the best – if not the best – right handed hitter in the AL. He was (at a minimum) part of that discussion. He is obvsiously not the player he once was (and hasn’t been for several years), but he was a hell of a hitter 8 -10 years ago.
And once again, we are one day closer to the end of Nintendo driving this team to the ground (hopefully).
I don’t think that Wak is going to get fired after this game, but I think that after this week his chances of coming back next year are considerably down from where they were at this time one week ago unless something drastically changes over the next two months.
I can see most if not all of the coaching staff being bid adieu after the season, and I think that Jack Z. has some work to do in continuing to clean up the club house, and get some more of these headcases out.
WHO CARES HOW MANY HEADACHES THERE ARE!?!
GET MORE TALENT.
Oh yeah, no argument from me. His approach served him well until his back betrayed him. And I’d hope he wouldn’t tell young players “do what I did because it worked for me”.
It’s somewhat analogous to how Ichiro approaches his at bats. Swinging at almost anything within reach has worked for him because of his bat control – he somehow manages to turn those out-of-zone pitches into fair balls. But when Lopez tries the same thing… well we basically get to watch that fiasco, day after day. And I would think Ichiro realizes his approach wouldn’t work well for the vast majority of players.
I’m pretty amazed that Z sat down with both Figgins and Wak last week. That puts them on the same level as though they are equally to blame. I agree that a strong message needed to be sent to Figgins alone that he does what the manager says. But maybe $36 million says, “oh yeah?”
This has been a pretty bad month for Z. The “legal issue” in the Lee trade betrayed a lack of due diligence and the way he failed to handle Figgins looked bad. Wak will probably take the fall for the pathetic performance on the field this month.
Don’t assume Sweeney’s problem is his approach. In his prime, he had more BB’s than K’s 5 years running. I think his problem is a combination of a slow bat and poor pitch recognition, not necessarily his approach. He may just not be able to see as well as he did in his 20’s.
On another note, I can’t let this pass:
Comparing Tui to the greatest Mariner of all time is blasphemy. Edgar wasn’t a DH because of his glove; he was a DH because of injuries. He wasn’t a bad 3B when he played there.
Maybe they were.
Don’t be “amazed.” We don’t know how the news was delivered from Wak to Figgy … and having the GM speak to them both simultaneously is no big deal. So what. This isn’t the military. The “protocal” is different. Figgy was partially blocked out by Cammy sliding into the bag, but he didn’t even flinch to go after the ball … so he got to ride the pine. He is tough enough to get over it. So is Wak. Bloggers should be too.
Figgy popped off and shouldn’t have. Men sometimes do that … when they feel they need to stand up for themselves. It is evidence that he has some heart too. Fight, get bloody, shake hands, move on.
That’s a good point. For all we know, Z might have been telling Figgy that Wak is the boss, and done so in Wak’s presence so there was no question he was standing behind him and no possible misinterpretation. We weren’t there, so we simply don’t know.
All we know for sure is the team is a mess and that most of the position players seem to be auditioning for a part in a George Romero film.
Thanks for the life lessons, msfanmike.
Immature, entitled men do that on television, showing up their manager and embarrassing the organization that is paying them multimillions.
And he should have been “man” enough to admit his mistake rather than continue his confrontational, “I didn’t do anything wrong” attitude with the press in the days following. That’s the attitude of a rebellious teen who hasn’t figured out who is paying the bills.
There is no way that Wak and Figgins can share equal blame. Not when one is the manager and the other is the player. If Figgins didn’t like being taken out of the game, throwing a tantrum in the dugout was not the way to handle it, even if Wak’s perception of his effort was incorrect. That could have been discussed later. It doesn’t show he is a “man” at all. It shows he has some growing up to do.
Wak may very well have lost the team, but Chone Figgins hasn’t helped the situation on or off the field. He’s the one who will continue to get paid, though.
“In Z we trust”. How much longer does Z get a pass from this fanbase? I am not saying that he needs to be fired but I think we can quit idolizing him now. You have to questions some of his offseason moves after the way this season has turned out. Examples-signing Figgins, signing Jack Wilson, trading Morrow for League, and signing Kotchman instead of Branyan. I will give him props for signing Felix though. But under his watch we went from “believe big” to on the lookout for a 100 plus losses.
We are only questioning now in hindsight. I don’t know of anyone who thought Figgins was a bad signing…until after we found out he couldn’t hit. Branyan had health issues. Kotchman and Wilson were both supposed to shore up the defense. If everyone had performed to their potential, we’d be fine this season.
I graduated in 96. Mid 80s is how hard I threw…which is one reason I never played longer than WSU.
You’re welcome.
As an added bonus, there will be a participation trophy and a blue ribbon available after the season has concluded.
How exactly can you know this? I used the word “maybe” (because I don’t know for certain). You sound pretty certain though … and I am curious as to how you know what you proclaim to know.
A tantrum, really? Are you sure there weren’t just some words exchanged – that escalated … and then escalated a bit more (with the help of others). A tantrum? Come on.
Mid-80’s is good enough to get the job done at a lot of different levels. You played in College – which means you had a much better career than 95% ish of people who ever played. I don’t know the exact number, but there must be an app for it.
“Cooty” was your HS pitching coach’s nickname when he was in high school … if you didn’t already know that.
Groundzero55
There were people that said this team was fragile before the season started. I believe dave did a post on all the injury bugs that could plague this team before the season started. Not just the injuries but the hope that Kotchman, Griffey, Sweeney, Byrnes, Jack Wilson, RoJo, etc… could all step up and consistently contribute. The sad fact was the majority of fans were so enamored with their new ace, they forgot the team was held together with ace bandages, and blind hope.
Man, I hope Smoak ends up hitting. I realize it’s only his second season in pro ball, but we always seem to get robbed in deals and our players usually don’t end up doing to well.
Blame marketing for “Believe Big.”
The truth was, Z was ALWAYS going to need a couple of years to reclaim the wasteland he was handed, post-Bavasi.
The fact that we overplayed our potential in 2009 and became the darlings of prognosticators going into this year…and that marketing ran with that…doesn’t change the task handed to Z nor his resolve to continue to achieve his over all aims.
The margin of error for this team was very slim… If you want to blame Z (or those above him) for something, blame them for that margin being too slim. We went into the season with no bench, with a couple of question marks in the starting rotation, with a team built for preventing runs on defense and hoping to small ball some runs on offense.
It was clear that everybody would have to play at or above their potential for this to have worked.
And they didn’t…and they haven’t…and they aren’t. Some, spectacularly so.
But, it’s not like Z absolutely mortgaged the farm to chase the ring this year the way Bavasi did.
Compare the pain-free acquisition of a half season of Cliff Lee brilliance and then (sadly, but rightfully) moving him for needed prospects versus Bavasi’s Bedard debacle to see why Z still commands my respect.
I don’t think deep pockets could have bought the M’s a contender this year–I just don’t think the necessary pieces were out there. The disappointment I feel is that no one has broken out…no one is playing above their potential (one could argue that no one is even MEETING their potential…now that Fister & Vargas have come back to earth and even Ichiro seems less Ichiro! than we’ve enjoyed in previous years.)
We’re building towards a future where some of these young ball players HAVE to become the players we think they could be…and not just another in the line of: Jose Cruz Jr., Ryan Anderson, Jeff Clement, etc. etc. etc…
Perhaps Wak HAS lost this team. Perhaps the players got caught up in their own marketing hype and never had their expectations properly readjusted. Perhaps the simple fact that a team built on preventing runs has failed to do that (due to a bullpen that wasn’t as strong as we thought and defense that was supposed to be our strength not turning out to be so strong) is why our 2010 Mariners experience has been so pitiful.
But, when I see the moves that Z makes in player acquisition…I still think he’s moving us forward. Perhaps we won’t actually deserve to “believe big” until 2012…but I still believe in Z.
Agreed.
Comparing Tui to Edgar is like thinking that the rusted-out old Kia with 300k miles on it that you just donated for a haul-away should be sitting on display at the LeMay Museum.
You believe the Putz for Guti deal was bad? Do you believe, in sum, the two Cliff Lee deals were bad? I think, over the past two years, the team has made pretty good deals.
If you want to complain about free agent signings, then you might (MIGHT) have better grounds for at least making the argument – but I don’t think you can complain a whole lot about the deals Z has made.
I think you’re overselling this – the “Tui vs. Edgar” comparison was, I thought, pretty obviously very limited in scope.
I don’t think any of those deals were bad. I mean hell Gutz is my favorite player on the team right now. It’s just it always seems like we end up getting bad players/prospects. I mean look at who we had, Jeff Clement was supposed to be a cornerstone, Aumont was going to be a good pitcher. The list goes on, Always seems like Murphy’s law hits us time after time. But I do believe Jack is turning this around slowly and we have great pieces. Then again it’s always the Mariners that seem to end up getting the raw end of the deal. I just hope Smoak doesn’t end up being a career AAAA player.
You’re correct Westside guy – and thank you for saying it (succinctly and better than I would have)on behalf of blogger “greentunic.”
It’s funny what the “media” can run with based on a comment of a comment of someone’s original comment. The story changed substantively in a small thread of info.
Before you know it, the blogger might be identified as a “jerk” by Matt Pittman and USSM will be forced to trade him.
Matt freaking Pittman. Good God.
Hang in there Greentunic … we have your back. Maybe not your best analogy ever, but we got it.
Worth repeating … IMO
Greentunic and msfanmike must be traded now!! They’ve obviously driven Lauren away!!
Oh wait, she stopped posting about the same time I started on here – uh oh… (checks his breath)
Westside guy & msfanmike —
Sorry about that, guys…guess my snark pitch went a little “Mr. Snappy” on me there…
If you must trade me, though, please send me to a contender! 🙂
Good news – Dayton Moore assured us that “The Process” will result in Kansas City being a contender in just a year or two!
And besides, you’ll get to play with one of the greats of the game – Mr. Grit himself, Willie F. Bloomquist!!
LOL … and who is Lauren?
I have posted since a day or two after the “lynching” comments first surfaced. I thought it was cool that so many people pointed out that comment as something that just cannot stand on this site and corrective actions were taken/apologies proferred accordingly.
I have grown accustomed to using this Site as an inexpensive form of traumatized M’s fan therapy. It also helps to spare the lovely Mrs. “M’sFanMike” from having to hear any more about it than necessary.
Lauren (whoever you are), I apologize. Please come back.
Sorry Pal, you have already been ordained as a believer in the belief system – and therefore you must be retained. Also, the Site is more interesting with you in it than not in it.
Lauren (I presume) refers to LaurenTokenChick – a poster of great wit and insight here at USS Mariner.
Those were the days when a game thread would usually have 200+ comments and we all thought the Mariners would be a good team “real soon now.”
Ah, memories . . .
Well, we could certainly use more of that!
Eastern, WA summers are hotter than a fart on a skillet, and being outside in the heat is having a more noticeable adverse affect on me every year – so “blogging” has became a matter of necessity – as well as a therapeutic means to an end.
Maybe Lauren morphed into NellieFox and banned herself/himself.
Yup, and in all seriousness – she did seem to stop posting about the same time I started. 🙂
BTW scott19, there weren’t any apologies necessary, and I hope I didn’t come across as taking this all too seriously. I didn’t really think you were either, so I apologize if I sounded like I did. Edgar is my favorite all-time Mariner, both for his on-the-field greatness and for his ability to just be a nice guy – and also for the great commercials, such as the one where he’s helping the new Latin American team members to learn how to say “geoduck” and order a latte.
But I did have to stifle a laugh whenever he’d run the bases. It’s amazing how great he was, and doubly so because of his shot knees.
Check that … maybe she morphed into Westside guy. Westside guy used the words “did seem to stop” – and his apology was awfully sweet. I think he may be trying to tell us something.
Boy, it has been a long season.
Turned on the radio about 20 minutes ago. Salk doing his ESPN national spot. First caller: From the State of WA … complaining about the Mariners. I can’t shake ’em. Salks prediction: Wak gets canned at season’s end.
Two more months of current production and he won’t make it that long. It’s too bad too. If he can redirect this ship, he can do anything. He might not have long to do it though. Start the Sweeney rumors … and the Lauren morphed into Westside rumors. 🙂
Just kidding Westy … I knew you could take it. Because you “come to play every day!”
Just random thoughts, comments, and replies here:
Westside guy — No worries, there…all in good humor — and agreed on all the Edgar points, too. Though I might’ve taken part of my handle from Bone (who’s also one of my favorites), Edgar should be a sure HOF’er — and somebody whom I never got tired of watching, either. Personally, I think “11” should be hanging from the rafters of Safeco right now as we speak…and if I ever see anybody else wearing that number, that may be the day I “officially” find another team to root for! 😮
As far as KC is concerned…Picard is likely to be piloting the Enterprise through space in the 24th Century by the time they finally get around to winning their next pennant! 🙂
As for Wak, can’t really disagree with Salk on that one…he’s probably right.
As for NellieFox, he may have gone back to the White Sox blogs. They are winning, after all.
And, as for Lauren…if you are reading this, the M’s may suck and be boring as all drying paint to watch at the moment…but we still miss your humor. Please feel free to drop in anytime!