The Line-Up
It’s become a fairly common question in the comment threads – what should the batting order look like right now, given the roster the Mariners have put on the field? To me, it’s a pretty easy call.
Vs RHP
1. Ichiro, RF
2. Figgins, 2B
3. Gutierrez, CF
4. Bradley, LF
5. Kotchman, 1B
6. Lopez, 2B
7. Griffey, DH
8. Catcher, C
9. Wilson, SS
Vs LHP:
1. Ichiro, RF
2. Figgins, 2B
3. Gutierrez, CF
4. Bradley, DH
5. Lopez, 2B
6. Kotchman, 1B
7. Byrnes, LF
8. Catcher, C
9. Wilson, SS
There are five hitters on this roster that are pretty clearly better than the other four. Especially against RHPs, those five should be stacked together, giving the Mariners the best chance possible to get multiple hits in an inning. Bradley and Kotchman are the guys who should be trying to drive in the top of the order, and hopefully Wak makes that call sooner than later.
I agree with both lineups. Belief system or not we need the best hitters bunched together. Our offense isn’t strong enough to overcome a bad line-up order. The pitchers need all the help they can with respect to run support.
Why not switch Wilson with Catcher? I know its only been a month, but it seems he’s been more productive, especially of late.
What happens when you simulate Ichiro and Figgy trading lineup slots?
Rob Johnson has actually been having better at bats than Wilson, while Wilson has been driving the ball more. That (I’d think) would leave you to conclude that Johnson should hit in front of Wilson.
My question is regarding vs. LHP. Is Byrnes really THAT much better than Bradley in LF? Because if he’s not a significant upgrade, I would like to see Sweeney face LHP. This is prefaced with the statement that Byrnes is (in my opinion) terrible at the plate, has a horrific swing, and looks confused as to how to catch a fly ball.
Yes, I realize we all hate Sweeney, but Byrnes looks like he’s as coordinated as me in 8th grade.
Even if you think Byrnes and Bradley are rough equals defensively in LF, playing Sweeney means that Bradley has to play the field, which increases the likelihood of him getting hurt. Dave’s lineup at least gives Bradley some days off (in the field) against LHP.
I wholeheartedly agree with Dave’s lineups.
Why not switch Wilson with Catcher?
There’s a concept of having a fast guy in #9, as he’ll be hitting in front of your #1 guy.
Maybe Byrnes is going through a growth spirt and we should expect some power numbers after he “gets used to his new size feet”.
In recent years, Byrnes has hit lefties OK but righties not well at all.
So far this year, Wak has used Byrnes mostly against righties.
According to Baseball Reference, Byrnes’ nicknames are “Crash Test Dummy” and “Pigpen”.
This is limited to those already on the 25-man, right?
Otherwise, against RHP Bradley goes to DH and Langerhans hits where Griffey is now and it’s perfect.
It’s kind of sad that all of us on here can look at those lineups like, “duh, that makes perfect sense, who needs to be explained this” but the guys running the team are clueless to this.
Please, no more Byrnes in the outfield. It’s too painful to watch.
Please, no more Sweeney at DH. It’s too painful to watch.
I get the politics/ego behind not telling FUTURE HALL OF FAMER Ken Griffey, Jr. he’s the #7 hitter. But I don’t understand the fascination with Lopez in the middle of the order. Perhaps Lopez is a good hitting second baseman, but he’s not a particularly good hitter overall.
Although neither Sweeney nor Griffey is an ideal DH by any means, I would have to assert that watching Griffey at DH is a far more painful experience.
I’d like to see saunders in left everyday. Move Bradley to DH. Langerhans is a nice role player but he doesn’t have the potential that saunders does…
Jack Wilson is fast?
Faster than Johnson/Moore.
based on OBP this year Lopez isnt even good as a second baseman. although Rob Johnson is #3 on the team in OBP which should probably make him the #3 hitter in the lineup so i dont actually advocate using OBP through 22 games as the stat to set the lineup.
http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?teamPosCode=sea&statType=1&noHighlight=true§ion1=1&timeFrame=1&c_id=sea&statSet1=1&subScope=teamCode&timeSubFrame=2010&&sortByStat=OBP
One of Wak’s tendencies this year, one that has been bugging me to no end, is his insistence on bunching righties like Guti and Lopez together. I hate their juxtaposed vulnerability to a power RH reliever late in the game… followed by, naturally, an inept DH hitting fifth, although that’s a separate problem.
How hard can it be, after all?
1: L
2: S
3/4/5: L/R/S or R/S/L or even S/R/L
6/7/8/9: whatever
such confusion! 🙂
Compared to Rob Johnson? Yes.
You don’t want a catcher clogging up the bases in front of Ichiro and Figgins, and Wilson, while he doesn’t offer much in the way of offense, does provide a decent amount of RBI oppurtunities for Ichiro with the doubles he’s been hitting.
There was a good audio clip on the radio this morning of Snell saying he’s ok w/changing roles now that Lee is coming back. He said something like everyone has bigger problems than he does and he’s still playing baseball. His voice sounded like he believed what he was saying too. I was happy to at least here this from a guy who has had confidence problems in the past. I was worried about what the move to the pen might do to his psyche. The words might not translate to confidence on the mound from the pen, but it can’t hurt.
Who are they taking off the roster with Lee coming back? Tex? Jesus?
This won’t be happening as long as Saunders is hitting .138/.138/.203 in Tacoma. Best case scenario for the foreseeable future in LF is a Byrnes/Langerhans platoon.
I hope they trade Jesus Colome to Yankees for K. Texeira ( our Rule 5 guy ). Bring up either Hanrahan or Langerhans, and release Byrnes. When / if Bedard ready, send K. Texiera to Tacoma.
Let Bradley DH against lefties.
I agree, the way he’s hitting Griffey does not belong in a lineup against pitchers with hands, right or left. Sweeney doesn’t belong in the lineup either, and (unlike Mr Touchy Untouchable) could be removed from the roster in favor of a real DH. Or a real LF. Man, I wish Saunders would figure out whatever the hell is wrong with him at the plate — it would be much easier to make this move if there was a corner outfielder tearing up PCL pitching in Tacoma.
Otherwise I generally agree with the ordering: Wilson is faster than the catchers, so you’d rather have him on base ahead of Ichiro. Lopez maybe doesn’t deserve to be as high #6, and probably shouldn’t ever be hitting ahead of Kotchman, but I suppose it’s possible he’ll return to his ’09 form now that he’s “comfortable” on the field again in his new position and can pay attention to batting practice.
It’s sure nice to have a couple of switch-hitters to sprinkle through the order — we can only hope that Figgins has now started actually hitting sinister, and not just standing at the plate that way.
The idealized line-up will hopefully present itself this season but I’d like to add a comment I’ve been mulling since the “belief system” post a few days ago. Bradley has clearly stated that batting fourth put pressure on him last year. Wak is relieving this pressure, especially since Milton hasn’t started off too hot. Kotchman is a belief system reclamation project. Until he is hitting consistently, which he may be beginning to, Wak is keeping pressure off him. Remember, last year Branyan hit second and stayed there for quite some time after he proved (to himself) that he could hit again. Not many argue about one – two and eight –nine, and Guti has shown so far that he candle the three hole. That leaves four through seven to be filled by struggling hitters. Better that your new guys with perhaps shaken confidence flail away at six and seven and the returning guys fail at four and five. Part of ‘veteran leadership’ is showing how to handle failure also. Junior may wish that he was hitting seventh right now, but Wak is putting him fifth so Bradley or Kotch don’t have to. Who knows where Bradley would be right now had he been stuck in clean-up every day and struggled as he had. He might be fine or he might be standing out on I-5 at rush hour with a Samurai sword. It is still April and you want to be patient while those guys gain consistency and confidence. They are just starting too. Give it a little more time; that’s what it appears Wak is doing.
When Bradley and Kotchman are ready to move up in the line-up they’ll let Wak know, either directly or through demeanor.
P.S. There’s some guy named Cliff Lee pitching for the Mariners tonight.
Snell’s stuff is better suited for the bullpen than RRS’ is, but I still think he deserves the “demotion” less than The Big Aussie. But them’s the breaks, I guess. It’s still possible that Vargas or Fister will go into the kind tailspin that makes Snell look better (though Bedard looms also).
When backpacking through Asia years ago my buddy developed what he called “The Theory of the Cleaner Shirt” which basically involved wearing one of his two shirts until it was dirtier than the one that was in his backpack; then he would switch shirts and repeat the process. The 5th starter in any rotation often works the same way. (Despite my best efforts, my buddy was too lazy to do his own washing and never in one place long enough to have it done for him; when the shirts rotted off his body, he just bought new ones… which is kind of how it goes with the back of the rotation, also).
This roster is just plain maddening. It’s like being forced to deside between the brussel sprouts and week old kale. You don’t want either one, but man, you gotta eat.
My kingdom* for a DH.
Come on Z, we have 7 starters no DH… Do you magic and get Pujols for Fister and Byrnes!
*Student loans include in kingdom.
Those lineups look fine, but I’m a little concerned about the defensive arrangement. Sure, we’ll stop anything up the middle, but that hole at 3B could be a problem.
You want the M’s to trade one of their players for another one of their players?
Bizarre.
Keep them both and don’t send Texiera to the minors.
I’m assuming he means trade Colome for the Yankees’ right to claim Texeira back (as a Rule 5 pick) if we try to send him down. I don’t know if the MLB rules allow that or not.
Do you think bringing up Tommy Everidge at some point (probably putting one of the dynamic DH duo on the DL) would help matters or would it basically be a lateral move? I haven’t followed him too closely in Tacoma but he can’t be much worse than the Griffey/Sweeney tandem…can he?
Huh. Apparently Everidge hit a two-run walk off homer today. I had no idea. Weird timing with that last post.
Sounds good to me.