This isn’t the end
To answer the question “are you still on the bandwagon?” I roll my eyes at the implication there is a bandwagon while sighing heavily, and yes, sure, for purposes of the question, why not.
I don’t know what’s going on with Morrow, and it’s a loss for the team if he’s not in the rotation (where he’d be the #2 starter following a future Bedard trade). What’s going on with Morrow though is the previous administration’s fault, and particularly their desire to improve the bullpen to compete immediately at the cost of player development. We don’t know how much they could have influenced Morrow, or if they’re conceding this battle now to make him happy with the intention of continuing to work on the issue
I clearly prefer Shelton over Sweeney, but I don’t think it’s that huge of a difference, and Dave (and everyone else) doesn’t see much of a difference at all. I’ll shrug and concede.
I’m disappointed about Walker: I thought that was a nice little move I wanted to see work out, it was good to see him pitch this spring, and I hope he can work his way back to the majors this year.
And on Clement, yeah, this sucks. For all the blathering about failing to prove himself at the major league level blah blah blah, no one seriously doubts he can hit, and the challenge is figuring out how to get his bat into a lineup. The team as constructed with Griffey (and, I should note, this should be an indication that they’re going to be parking Griffey at DH) didn’t leave Clement a lot of at-bats to pick up anyway. But going to Tacoma’s not going to help his development.
Look at this in contrast to last year, though: Silva and the Bedard trade. Huge, fat disasters, ones the team’s going to pay for for seasons to come, absurd on their face. As much as yesterday’s news isn’t happy fun time, they’re bad outcomes of close and difficult decisions. The smarts of the Branyan pickup isn’t lessened by whether they go with Shelton/Sweeney.
Last, on the same theme, there’s no chance the team’s not exploring options to clear up some of this. We saw with the Putz trade how highly they value proven closers: if that’s all Morrow wants to become they’re already pondering pump-and-dump schemes. Clement may have more value to a team willing to accept a defensive upgrade to get his bat, maybe betting he’ll listen to reason over the long term. If this all ends up kicking off a couple of huge trades that net the M’s a haul in prospects, in a couple of weeks none of this will have mattered and everyone decrying the awfulness of the front office yesterday will be asking for a hand back up onto the wagon, which we’ll helpfully provide.
This is in no way a disaster on the scope of previous off-seasons. Don’t freak out. If they make a series of huge bonehead moves, trust us to point that out.
Is it official that Shelton has not made the club? I havn’t been able to find anything on it other than some indications that it will probably happen.
Oh please, like we can trust you guys to report bad moves. You’re all just huge [Zduriencik] apologists! And massive pessimists to boot!
Somehow.
I don’t think many people that visit this site are falling of the bandwagon. Personally, it just sucks to see Morrow going back to the bullpen. After the little glimmer of hope last year when he had his first start now we are at this point where he doesn’t even want to start anymore. He was one of the things I was most excited to see this year, just how he developed, and got better. Now this is a huge step backwards. I’m not jumping off the bandwagon, it just sucks right to be an M’s fan right now.
Being a diabetic myself I understand the “lows” that Morrow talks about and how it can come out of nowhere. That being said he seems to be selling himself short on saying that he wants to be in the bullpen. I was curious how it was going to work for Jay Cutler weather he would miss a series here and there due to his levels not being on but he seemed to make it work very well.
Come on now. Silva’s a much slimmer below replacement level player now!
Is there any chance at all that Clement could improve his throwing while in Tacoma? It seems that is the primary reason stated for sending him to AAA. And DMZ states:
I’m wondering how we would know that. Is it due to seeing similar catchers in the past? Or is there something else I am missing?
ugghh… when did you guys become mouthpieces for the organization? You complete unwillingness to say anything negative about the M’s destroys your credibility.
Cutler was the first one I thought of, as well. I wonder, though, how many there are who fail due to diabetes for every Cutler. I posted this at the end of the Morrow thread, but no one is probably reading that anymore, so: what are the possiblities that Morrow sees his only path to stardom in the closer role, rather than playing second fiddle to Felix? How realistic was the chance that he’d be able to stretch out into a starter, to begin with? It seems like if it was just a matter of his being discouraged, they could talk him through it. There must be something else here that we don’t know about.
I’m hoping more will be said of GMZ than “smart little pickups” and “avoiding disaster” or we’re staring in the face of a long series of decent but not great seasons.
I’m guessing he’s been working on his throwing at the catcher position for about 12 years, including 3 years as a professional. I think we’re concerned that there’s not much improvement left to be had.
Clement’s going to be 25 next season. If you can find me successful defensive improvement comps for 25-year old catchers, I’d love to know about them because I can’t find any. And I mean “bad to the point they’re going to move him off” to “now can throw guys out effectively”
I don’t see any reason to question Morrow’s stated reasons for wanting to make this move. He tried to do what the organization wanted him to do, but didn’t feel like it was good for his body.
I really think that was all there was to it.
“I really wrestled with starting or closing, and the bottom line is that after J.J.(Putz) was traded I wanted to close”
What’s with this recent trend of people cherry-picking the one sentence of what someone says that supports their own view?
Yes, that’s when he says he made the decision, but he ALSO says that he struggled with his blood sugar and his endurance a lot last year. In other words, he probably would’ve liked to have made this move last year, but was blocked by Putz; now that Putz is gone he felt like he could ask to move to the closer role without displacing someone.
Sheesh, let’s give these guys a little bit of credit for being honest until we have good reason to believe otherwise.
Because said people are not going to cherry-pick a sentence that doesn’t support their own view? Kidding.
If Morrow wants to remain in the pen due to his medical condition, fine. Can’t really argue with that.
However, he has made several comments about wanting to close b/c that’s where he feels he is most valuable to the team and b/c JJ is now gone, leaving an opening for a closer. If that’s the case, that is bush. Baseball is a team game and if you won’t do what is asked of you and take it for the team, then pack your bags.
I just hope that Jojihma keeps up his hitting from the WBC and spring training thus far. Please please let last year be a fluke and at least be a .280 hitter….
I don’t know, as Matthew’s article shows, it seems a bit more complicated than a straight-up blood sugar thing. But, like I said above, who knows what is going on behind the scenes as far as Morrow’s health is concerned.
I’m still particularly devastated by this.
I trade, like JN pointed out yesterday, would sure cheer me up.
If anything, I think that Morrow’s desire to stay in the bullpen opens up the option of Bedard resigning…
He’s not going to go to a big city with big city media. I just can’t see Boston/NY/Philly/etc. trading for him. The M’s have one of the most forgiving press corps in the majors.
The M’s look to be continuing to improve their defense which will make him look better. Hopefully better results will make him happier (if he wasn’t happy to begin with).
With Washburn and Batista gone, the M’s need starting pitching in 2010. If Bedard leaves your potential starters currently in the organization are:
Felix
RRS
Silva
Garrett Olson
Gaby Hernandez
Ryan Feierabend
Who am I missing?
That rotation would be servicable with a good enough defense, but is that the rotation we want going forward? I don’t see that team competing very well. But then again, I guess the Bedard decision will be based on how well he pitches this year, what the trade market looks like, and then what the open market for free agents looks like next year.
Either way, Morrow’s move to the bullpen puts some pressure on the team with regards to the 2010 starting situation.
This makes the Garrett Olson move look better and better for the future at least.
Yep, if he can turn into something useful…
Posada? I know he was generally regarded as a bat-first catching prospect but he developed into a (somehwat)passable defensive around his age 24-25 season.
Closing is easier than starting, and Morrow’s more likely to get a big payday out of it.
I understand completely why he’d rather close.
Is this sarcasm? If not, you should go lookup some articles from the last few years. We can trust Derek and Dave to let us know when they thing the front office is being stupid.
Seriously, if people think picking Sweeney over Shelton is as bad a move as signing Silva – well, I don’t know. I just don’t know.
That comment was dripping sarcasm.
mmmmmmm, ic. I still need a hug though, or a tasty “beverage”. . .
yeah, I was kidding.
The box score looks good for RRS today. 3 hit shutout ball through five innings. At least Morrow going to the pen helps his development. The Brew crew’s starters too…
I don’t quite understand “the end game” with Clement. So we send him to Tacoma, where he turns PCL pitchers turn into sniveling, whimpering husks of human beings (“Don’t make face him again! PLEASE!”) but he still can’t catch. So he gets the 1B/DH tag. Then other teams see that we have too many players at those positions already and that he’s not good enough to be a catcher. With his (and the team’s) options running, some team is able to get him in trade for virtually nothing. (Just like we should have done with Nick Johnson and the Nationals.) Or am I just being pessimistic?
Clement will be 26 in August
this morning Mitch was speculating that Morrow was going to the bullpen so that the FO wouldn’t have to make a decision about Washburn or Silva and their salaries. He really is the king of conspiracy theories.
Regarding Clement, Something I noticed way back when the M’s were waiting for Ben Davis to blossom and later Miguel Olivo, was that very, very few great ones or even good ones were mediocre for extended periods then were good for anything more a year or two. Those who hit good and were sub-par defenders, but stayed on Catching, hit well right away, they had too, like Piazza. The plus-plus guys usually were good right away like Bench or had fair rookie seasons offensively their first full year like Munson or like I-Rod who got the Gold glove his first full year, and then starting hitting good the next year and proceeded with great careers. Yogi is the best example of a guy developing, George Weiss loved his bat, and his part-time season in 1947 was a showcase for a trade, but working with Bill Dickey he improved, and in 1948 when he 23, he was an good everyday guy on his way to the HOF. Posada was comparable to Clement’s situation, and that is why he had to split time in the nineties with Giradi, Clement was on the track to develop that way until now. It is also worth noting that Jimmie Foxx, Dale Murphy, Carlos Delgado and many others including Mike Sweeney started out as catchers and had good careers at other positions. Clement has a shot at being a good offensive player, but I don’t think he will be a good catcher.
ppl – good analysis. I think it further supports either to put him at a different position now or let him try to catch part time at the major league level now…neither of which involves Tacoma.
Who is this Mike Wilson? He has 7 HRs and 18 RBI this ST. Wow!
Jordan, look here
I was thinking, how crazy would the front office be to keep Wilson over Wlad? Mike needs to show us more consistency at AAA before we give up on Wlad.
Just my thought.
unfortuantely, It appears right now that the only positive situation to arise from Clement being at Tacoma would be a negative situation involving someone else getting hurt and then him getting the call-up. If that is for a Catcher, he would have the edge over Moore at this point, but for a 1B/DH type role that might depend on the need, as Shelton bats right, he may have the edge at getting the call.
Mariners just signed some Korean guy as a catcher:
http://eastwindupchronicle.com/royals-mariners-ink-korean-prospects-to-deals/
Any thoughts? Anyone know if this is a major league deal or minors?
People think this is “the end”? I swear, the entire Mariners fanbase needs intensive therapy for bipolar disorder.
It’s like he’s this year’s Mike Morse!
Has anyone discussed a possible trade of Beltre (plus others) to the Red Sox? Mike Lowell is a less-than stable prescence at third base, and the Sox has a surplus of pitching. So if things go along as they are now could we possibly be look at this type of trade near the deadline if the M’s aren’t contenders?
I don’t know, I haven’t thought much into it, it just seemed interesting on the surface. Thoughts?
Remember folks, this isn’t like any previous administration we’ve ever had. If they’re making decisions, they’re making decisions based on as much information available to them. I’m sure they know what we know but had to do what they had to do.
Good call on the Red Sox — I was actually thinking of Clement to the Red Sox. They showed interest in Saltalamacchia who seems to have a similar profile (high upside offense / mediocre to bad defense). They supposedly balked at moving Buchholz but Bowden and Masterson are two other intriguing arms that are major league or near ML ready.
Beltre is almost universally undervalued. I’d hate to see a guy who does pretty much everything really well traded somewhere for prospects. Bleh.
This whole Morrow thing is really disappointing. I hate to sound like I’m down on those who are unlucky enough to have to deal with diabetes, but I had a bad feeling when he was drafted. 🙁
Oh, well — how often do top pitching prospects ever pan out, anyway? (double frown)
I did some extensive research and have come across the amazing fact that Zduriencik and Wakamatsu have identical records as a major league GM and manager: 0-0. You might say I’m not exactly worrying about the bandwagon as yet. This is a team which was missing four starting position players and two starting pitchers (well, one starting pitcher and one who plays one on TV) as recently as a week ago. We don’t know nothing.
Dear god, I need a hug after this news and the news today that Tony Bennett is leaving Wazzu.
The bad news just keeps rolling in apparently. . .
🙁
Yeah I was thinking something like Beltre and Clement for Bucholz.
I just watched Heathcliff Slocumb throwing his patented no-movement fastball in the 1997 clincher and overpaying the Red Sox isn’t a deal I’d make. Why would you trade the two draft choices we’d get for Beltre plus Clement for one guy?
Tell me about it, Tom.
As for the idea of a bandwagon…how absurd. Are we talking about the same bandwagon that everyone jumped aboard after the last five years of roaring success this team has experienced?
Oh wait, that didn’t happen. Quite the opposite, in fact.
If anything, all of us deserve a round of applause for gutting out the “lean” years and boldly facing the future.
This is a setback, no doubt about it, but hardly an insurmountable one. I have faith, given what we’ve seen out of Dr. Z so far, that this ship will eventually be arighted.
So- what are the odds that Brandon’s choices were to go to the bullpen and try to get his arm strength back, or start the season down in Tacoma– and he opted to fill a hole in the pen? Might be a simple answer, but it was the first thing I thought when I heard the news. He wants to pitch in the majors, and found a spot that’s open.
followed this morning by his pronouncement that the FO is thrilled by Morrow’s decision. Sandmeyer, on the other hand, thinks it must secretly be an arm injury dictating this.
I’m desperate for baseball talk, but really.
I’m not saying that would be the exact deal, just the major pieces in the deal.