Baek isn’t durable
In response to some comments made on the broadcast tonight, I did a real quick and dirty check. In 2007, Baek made 12 starts for the M’s and went 70 1/3rd innings, in sometimes short-notice circumstances. That’s just shy of 6 innings a start, which isn’t all that great for a starter, no, on the face of it.
That’s better than everyone in the M’s rotation today except Felix. Better than Bedard, Washburn, Batista, and the guy he’s facing tonight, Silva. Of course we never get that kind of pointed criticism leveled against them, and I understand why — the broadcasts are there to sell the team, not to tell the truth. But there’s something particularly ugly about this attempt to slag a decent enough guy just because the M’s were ineptly run. It’d be like harping on how Norton could really only play the corner infield positions while we watch Turbo and Maxi-Turbo struggle to get their daily singles.
I’ve always thought Baek was a decent enough back-rotation guy with some attractive qualities, and if you remember I got pretty ticked when they threw him away for no reason. The least they could do is say nothing, and let that speak for the situation. This kind of pettiness does them no favors.
its sad…
one big last ‘f-you’ from Bill on the way out. I kept waiting for some metric explanation as to why, only it never came. I’m no expert, but looking at his numbers, I’d call him a genuine #4/5 guy, low miles and priced right. Unlike our staff of ‘5 aces’, (exempting Felix, maybe Bedard he gets consistent.)
well, the letter to Howard about the GM candidates got an answer… maybe someone could inquire as to the “thought process” behind the Norton & Baek moves…
Yeah I think Baek is decent as well….I’d rather him out there than Batista and a few others…Instead we get a random prospect who probably won’t pan out like all the other random prospects we have traded for over the years…
Tacoma All Time Win Leaders (1960 to present)
WINS
1) Ron Herbel 43
2) Mark Wiley 40
3) Steve Luebber 39
4) Eddie Bane 38
5) Gerry Thomas 36
6) Mike Pazik 34
T-7) Juan Veintidos 30
Curt Young 30
T-9) Jim Hughes 28
Danny Rivas 28
T-11) Gaylord Perry 27
Ryan Franklin 27
T-13) Bill Hands 26
Eddie Fisher 26
Dick LeMay 26
Cha Seung Baek 26
T-17) Bob Garibaldi 24
George Sherrod 24
19) Ken Cloude 23
20) Bruce Walton 22
4 – Isn’t Wells out of options anyway next year so the M’s pretty much gave up Baek for nothing in the end.
I’m rather fond of referring to Silva as the 48 Million Dollar Cha Seung Baek… Only, I’d rather have Baek (even not looking at contract)
Truthfully, I’d suggest it’s lack of insight rather than pettiness that makes it so easy for them to construct such canards.
There I said it.
Baek seems to be the definition of replacement-level talent, a concept the M’s fail to grasp.
This team has spent how many millions and prospects on guys like Washburn, Silva, Batista. Spiezio, Aurilia, Vidro, et al? And what do they have to show for it? One good year from Jose Guillen. A smart team spends about one twentieth the price taking flyers on AAAA guys, and ends up with a similar ratio of hits to misses. But their hits are named Jack Cust, make the league minimum, and don’t tie the team to a bad contract for four years.
I went into tonight expecting Baek to shut us down and Silva to get knocked around like the meatballer he is. Instead Silva earned half a paycheck for the first time I can remember since probably April, and I’m actually excited about Brandon Morrow’s future. Not a bad night, even if we did beat textbook replacement level Baek with one of our terrible FA pitcher signings, which sends all kinds of wrong messages.
10: I made basically the same point in the game folder. I like to think of the “well, in this one game he . . . ” arguments as the kind of fodder you get in Boston sports radio talk. I remember once some guy talking about Bill Lee in 1978 and saying, “well, he had his one chance in the 1975 World Series and he blew it” as though that had anything to do with the present. Sort of like the arguments about how RJ couldn’t win the big one, before 2001, even though he’d absolutely won the big one in the 1995 playoff game and in the ALDS, but he had lost this game and that game.
The Silva signing is going to be an albatross around the neck of this franchise through 2011, unless the new GM has the status within the organization to get rid of him as a costly mistake and a sunk cost.
The Saga of Cha Seung is one of the nice wrap-it-up-in-a-neat-package examples of the M’s Front Office ineptitude. First, they would rather pay “proven veterans” $8M/year to go 4 innings than a “kid” like Baek $400k to go 6 innings.
Second, they show zero planning in their roster construction by signing and trading for a ton (literally, in Silva’s case) of starting pitching, leaving Baek hanging on by his fingernails when he’s out of options. If they were going to add Bedard, Silva and Dickey to the roster, they should have traded Baek in the offseason, anticipating the problem of not having a spot for him on the active roster and being out of options.
Third, if Batista or Washburn or Silva struggles, it’s because they’re “pressing” or because they’re showing their toughness by playing through an injury or some such. In any event, they just need to tweak something, to “buckle it up and get after it” and they’ll be fine. But if Baek struggles, it’s because he’s no good or not ready or something else that can’t be fixed north of Tacoma.
Finally, when their overpriced veterans implode night after night, they react by shuffling the supporting cast and AAA callups, yanking the chains of guys like Baek and Clement and Wlad (or Norton) instead of doing something about Sexson, Batista, Silva, Vidro, etc. I can only assume it is more “role-playing” madness. DFA Baek and you only need to replace him with another “swing-man” role guy, which is cheap. But DFA Batista and you have to replace him with a Proven Veteran Starter, a much more expensive role to fill. So, Baek or Norton is easy to DFA, but Batista or Sexson is really hard to DFA. And of course you can’t replace Batista with Baek, Lord knows that’s not his $#&%#!@ role…
DMZ:
That sort of slagging by innuendo isn’t just petty, it’s dishonorable. Some issues have to be bigger than public asskissing for your boss.
just heard a nice quote that finished up sportscenter…”The Mariners have won two series in a row…go figure! Have a good night”.
Dick LeMay 26
He was my junior high school gym teacher. Really.
â€The Mariners have won two series in a row…go figure!
Figure on bad hitters beating worse pitching. Figure on what happens when facing underperforming (or just bad) NL teams missing important pieces of their lineups. Figure on SportsCenter not doing any analysis deeper than a token look at the boxscores. Let’s try to figure what happens when the M’s face the better pitchers on legitimately good teams.
Not to be Joe Downer or anything, but let’s not get too ahead of ourselves here. As bad as this team is, you have to expect them to win a series here and there — especially when they’re facing other bad teams. That shouldn’t really change anybody’s evaluation of the underlying quality of the team (or lack thereof) any more than that improbable run last summer should have (though clearly it did, all the way up to the top of the M’s organization, setting the stage for this season’s debacle).
And this is more than just being a (stereo)typical “glass half-empty” M’s fan. This season is unarguably unsalvageable, so there’s something to be said for playing for draft position.
And in the meantime, we read that the M’s allowed one of their most valuable assets, J. J. Putz, make his own interpretation of the casual instruction from an unidentified coach to “get better extension” on his unmonitored rehabilitation tosses. He did some kind of “snapping motion” and hurt himself again, delaying his return.
To me, the moral of this story is that They care so little about taking care of the talent they have that they allow Putz to do play catch for the first time since his injury without having coaches there watching him.
This seems another piece of evidence that the entire organization, not just theGM spot, needs cleaning out. Very sloppy, and not much on follow through. Could that be part of the reason why minor league pitching is so injury prone? And that nagging injuries are allowed to carry on and drag on performance?
Can hardly blame Bedard for being so cautious…
So here’s a question: would the team be better off with Baek than Dickey, since he has inherited the “regular panic starter” role that the M’s seem to have invented as a consequence of their inability to plan ahead. It kind of looks like a wash to me — Dickey walks more (as you’d expect), Baek gives up fewer HRs… the only stat really sticks out (ignoring most of the split stats due to sample size) is how much better Dickey is vs LH hitters: .202 (.230 BABip, .617 OPS), compared to Baek vs LH: .286 (.381 BABip, .829 OPS), and how much worse he is vs RH: .354 (.400 BABip, .851 OPS); Baek vs RH .260, (.266 BABip, .728 OPS)
I guess that’s the definition of replacement-level talent — they’re easy to replace. I still agree that it was sheer incompetence that needlessly lost him, and — given this team’s incomprehension of replacement level — there was no certainty that they would’ve found similar talent (and with more than half a season still to play, Dickey may still prove inferior).
Can you imagine this staff?
Felix
Bedard
Morrow
Baek
Dickey
How about in 2 years? I mean, they couldn’t do WORSE than our current rotation, and they have the potential to be crazy better. Do the Mariners know what “upside” is?
If you look at the pitch data from last night’s game, Baek and Silva had essentially the same quality performance.
Silva: 87 pitches, 62 strikes
Baek: 83 pitches, 59 strikes
contact, swing, looking
Silva: 41-3-18
Baek: 37-8-14
Silva: 0 BB, 3 SO
Baek: 1 BB, 5 SP
GB-FB-LD
Silva: 14-8-3
Baek: 7-6-4
Really, not much difference. Baek may have missed a few more bats, but he also gave up a little more in the air (proportionally speaking).
jzalman, You hit it on the head. Add to that the projected salaries for that 5 man rotation abd it really makes me scratch my head.
#20 It is true that I am sure that your rotation would be better than the performance we got this year from our BOR. But I *think* that on paper at the beginning of the season ($$ aside) that we would had expected Wash/Batisa/Silva to be better (marginally) than Baek/Dickey/Morrow.
The thing is, it’s never “$$ aside”. If you’re only getting marginal extra value for that $30 million, you’re a fool. Better to take the slightly worse rotation and apply the $30 mil to someone who’s really good, and meets a need. Like, say, a 1B or DH who can play baseball.
Right. Plus, Morrow/Baek/Dickey are year-to-year, so if one of them bombs (or someone better comes along, like Aumont) you can easily dump them from the rotation. Washburn, Batista and Silva all took multi-year contracts that severely limit the teams flexibility. Silva looks like he’s become a replacement level pitcher, and he’ll be making millions for three more years.
[tapping watch]
so, do we assume that, instead of reclining in the shade with a cold beverage as any sane person would, Derek is out pedaling up hills in 85 degree weather?
Probably already suffered heat stroke and is laying on someone’s lawn with a cold washcloth over his forehead.
BTW, I wish to ammend my earlier post. Silva hasn’t regressed to replacment level. His xFIP is in line with career norms (he’s getting killed by LOB), making him a league average starter. Wonder what he’ll be by the last year of his contract.
The Padres have an unfair advantage. They can’t be seen when they wear those unis!
There’s a game thread now.
I know it’s the Padres and all, but still the words “Mariners” and “going for the sweep” hardly sound synonymous in the same sentence these days.
Derek,
Keep an even keel.
Or you won’t have any energy left to be upset when they start dissing CARLOS GUILLEN.
Yup, I got up early and was out all day, pretty much. Fricking heat was crazy.