[go: up one dir, main page]
More Web Proxy on the site http://driver.im/
THE BOOK cover
The Unwritten Book
is Finally Written!

Read Excerpts & Reviews
E-Book available
as Amazon Kindle or
at iTunes for $9.99.

Hardcopy available at Amazon
SABR101 required reading if you enter this site. Check out the Sabermetric Wiki. And interesting baseball books.
Shop Amazon & Support This Blog
RECENT FORUM TOPICS
Jul 12 15:22 Marcels
Apr 16 14:31 Pitch Count Estimators
Mar 12 16:30 Appendix to THE BOOK - THE GORY DETAILS
Jan 29 09:41 NFL Overtime Idea
Jan 22 14:48 Weighting Years for NFL Player Projections
Jan 21 09:18 positional runs in pythagenpat
Oct 20 15:57 DRS: FG vs. BB-Ref

Advanced

Tangotiger Blog

A blog about baseball, hockey, life, and whatever else there is.

Saturday, July 26, 2014

Fangraphs WAR for pitchers

?I've repeated on multiple occasions that I am happy that Baseball Reference takes one extreme view of evaluating pitching performance and Fangraphs takes the other extreme view.  For those walking into the middle of this conversation, I'll talk about this in the next paragraph.  Everyone else can go to paragraph 3.

Baseball Reference starts with runs allowed (runs not earned runs thankfully) and applies a team-level adjustment of fielding (whether the pitcher actually received that fielding support or not) and park.  The sequencing of events is absorbed completely by the pitcher, even though the pitcher is part of the defense and not the entirety of the defense.  Fangraphs starts with the things that are virtually all in the pitcher's responsibility (walks, K, HBP, HR) and stops there.  So, it absolves the pitcher completely of sequencing (i.e., performance with men on base) and balls in play (i.e., BABIP).

And I've been happy to simply take the midpoint of those two extreme viewpoints.  Let everyone else have the fight.  And Fangraphs, much to its credit, also gives you the option of picking and choosing what you want.  For example, we see the Strasburg's various versions of WAR you can get from Fangraphs breaks down as: 3.0 WAR in its official calculation; 1.0 WAR if based on using runs allowed (Baseball Reference has him at 0.8 WAR in a similar but more elaborate calculation); 2.8 WAR if you give him credit for his men on base performance but not BIP; 1.2 WAR if you give him credit for BIP but not sequencing.  

As I said, I split the difference of the 1 rWAR and the 3fWAR and give him 2 WAR and move on. 

But there, staring me in the face, is the league leaders in WAR for starting pitchers in the NL.  Kershaw at 3.7 (*), Wainwright at 3.3, Cueto at 2.8.  All three will likely finish in the top 3 in Cy Young voting, so good for Fangraphs.  But in there is Strasburg, who likely won't even get a single vote from any of the thirty voters.  And I think it might give Fangraphs a black eye.  Maybe.

(*) Note to David: your leaderboards don't show Kershaw, because you impose a "qualified IP".  So, the actual leader is not shown!  I don't see any reason for having a check on IP for the leaderboards on a counting stat.

So, as much as I like to not think about it, and just split the difference from the two extreme viewpoints, I'm wondering if maybe the community is better served by not having such an extreme viewpoint from Fangraphs.

You might think: well, what about Baseball Reference's extreme viewpoint?  That is true, it is extreme, when considering single season. But at the career level, it actually doesn't come out so extreme.  That's a topic for another thread.

What say you?  Are you happy with the two extreme viewpoints, or should Fangraphs official position change?

(26) Comments • 2014/08/10 • Pitchers

Latest...

COMMENTS

Feb 19 11:05
Bat-Tracking: Timing Early/Late

Feb 07 15:38
Aging Curve - Swing Speed

Feb 06 11:55
Batting Average as a proxy for fun!  Batting Average as a proxy for fun?

Feb 03 20:21
Valuation implication of straying from the .300 win% replacement level

Jan 31 13:35
Breaking into the Sports Industry WITHOUT learning to code

Jan 26 16:27
Statcast: Update to Catcher Framing

Jan 19 15:02
Young players don’t like the MLB pay scale, while veteran stars love it

Jan 14 23:32
Statcast Lab: Distance/Time Model to Catcher Throwing Out Runners

Jan 07 13:54
How can you measure pitch speed by counting frames?

Jan 02 17:43
Run Value with runners on base v bases empty

Dec 28 13:56
Run Values of Pitches: Final v Intermediate

Dec 27 13:56
Hall of Fame voting structure problem

Dec 23 19:24
What does Andre Pallante know about the platoon disadvantage that everyone else does not?

Dec 21 14:02
Run Values by Movement and Arm Angles

Dec 18 20:45
Should a batter have a steeper or flatter swing (part 2)?

THREADS

July 26, 2014
Fangraphs WAR for pitchers