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#indiewebcamp 2015-01-21

2015-01-21 UTC
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bret Phyks: nice post btw!
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bret Phyks++
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Loqi Phyks has 5 karma
prtksxna, tantek_, nloadholtes, tantek, snarfed, KartikPrabhu, GWG and minsky joined the channel
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KartikPrabhu tantek: aaronpk: wodering what this was about: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-01-20#t1421793151916 can't seem to decipher context
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KartikPrabhu maybe Loqi went away and is missing from logs?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: no see prev wiki edit before that from aaronpk
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tantek for the context
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KartikPrabhu oh ok
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KartikPrabhu tantek: for that: one could just show up and people would help one get setup and register at an IWC no?
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tantek just show up where? here in IRC? yes.
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KartikPrabhu no at IWC?
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KartikPrabhu i mean if someone just showed up and didn't register or have a rel-me etc... they wouldn't be sent back
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KartikPrabhu of course I don't mean that "just show up" should be put on the wiki. But "just showing up" demostrates some initiative
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tantek sure
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tantek and we have something like that - it's called being an apprentice
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tantek which means you have to AT LEAST try to contact someone who is registered and ask to be their apprentice
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tantek or ask here in the channel
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tantek if you're not willing to show that much initiative, then why should you take up room that someone else could use?
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KartikPrabhu possibly yes
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tantek it's good to have intentional barriers like that
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tantek essay coming up
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tantek.com edited /IndieWebCamps (+3697) "/* FAQ */ write an essay in response to the high bar question that aaronpk appears to be getting. Maybe I should blog this." (view diff)
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tantek boom
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tantek Even though I put it on the wiki first, I feel like I need to blog this: https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieWebCamps#Why_is_there_a_high_bar_for_registering
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KevinMarks____ You should explain that hwc has a lower barrier to entry too
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Loqi agreed.
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tantek KevinMarks - I'll wait for that to be an actual problem
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KevinMarks____ On both sides - you're committing a couple of hours rather than days
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tantek or if you wish you can that to http://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club
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KevinMarks____ And it's taking up less creators time
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tantek per https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieWebCamps##demonstrates%20that%20you%20are%20willing%20to%20make%20at%20least%20small%20edits%20to%20the%20wiki
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KevinMarks____ It's part of that faq as hwc is an onboarding experience for iwc
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tantek KevinMarks in practice it is not because very few locations have both
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tantek so no
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tantek that's a good (but separate) FAQ about HWC
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tantek please add it to http://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club if you believe in it
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KevinMarks____ For the problem Aaron was talking about, it is a good fit
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tantek it is not - do you know what location aaronpk was talking about?
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tantek !tell aaronpk for which location was someone (or how many people) asking the high bar question?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KevinMarks____ Your essay is not location specific
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tantek correct. already answered: very few locations have both, thus my essay applies to the vast majority of IndieWebCamps, and I'm *guessing* the one that aaronpk is being bugged about
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tantek besides the amount of travel time for the average person to make it to a HWC is >> the amount of time to setup a personal website. or to hop into this channel and ask
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tantek this is about time and math and respect
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tantek and I suppose about humility (counter-arrogance) (the ability to "ask for help")
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tantek what I left out of the response
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tantek the barriers are deliberately designed to discourage those who:
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tantek lack passion for a personal site - sorry, if you don't care, you're likely diluting an indiewebcamp - not contributing to it
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tantek not interested in learning
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tantek too proud to ask for help
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tantek don't have time to setup indieauth (then you certainly don't have time to spend at an indiewebcamp)
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tantek don't care about adding even small things to the wiki - then you don't care about our kind of community, and we'd rather focus indiewebcamps on people who do all step up to doing that
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tantek that's more blog post fodder than FAQ fodder
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tantek so yes, the barriers are designed as a filter. to filter in the qualities that help make a healthy indiewebcamp community, and perhaps more importantly to filter OUT the qualities that dilute or destroy community.
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tantek I'm also trying to work in a way of referencing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof-of-work_system as another way of describing some of what we ask - as a way to make sure people aren't spammers, harrassers, etc.
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tantek in this case the simple "work" is setting up your own site with indieauth and editing the wiki
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tantek a human function, rather than a CPU function
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kevinmarks.com edited /IndieWebCamps (+105) "/* Why is there a high bar for registering */" (view diff)
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tommorris web architecture nerds and fans of URLs may enjoy my latest post: https://tommorris.org/posts/9194 :)
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KevinMarks_ are you coming to the microformats thing, tom?
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KevinMarks_ are doi's not resolved by google scholar or the internet archive?
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tommorris KevinMarks_: yep.
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tommorris and, I'm sure Google and Internet Archive probably keep mappings of DOIs to things, but the canonical resolver is dx.doi.org
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KevinMarks_ this is the weird thing now, that searching the quotation is more resilient than the reference
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KevinMarks_ noticing this with my sons' essays - I don't have the jstor access they do, but given the quote I cna usually find some uni that has posted the paper online
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tommorris also, the White House now seem to be using Medium to publish official documents. https://medium.com/@WhiteHouse/president-obamas-state-of-the-union-address-remarks-as-prepared-for-delivery-55f9825449b2
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tommorris if I had whitehouse.gov, I'd sure want that to be the canonical place for my stuff. :)
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KevinMarks_ well, given whitehouse.gov's known site death problems
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KevinMarks_ wasn't there a huge site death when the presidency changed?
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tommorris yep.
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tommorris same in the UK. that's why the National Archives basically just ran an internal Internet Archive-style dump of everything.
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tommorris also, on cool government domains, though whitehouse.gov is good, it's not quite as good as friends of mine who have email addresses @digital.justice.gov.uk
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Tantek__ Darn it. According to google maps I'm going to be 15min late for the microformats dev meetup. Tommorris kevinmarks kylewm can you all find each other and grab some adjacent table space?
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Tantek__ See you as soon as I can safely get there.
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tommorris Tantek__: sure
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KevinMarks_ does Lord Justice have justice@digital.justuce.gov.uk ?
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kylewm tommorris: I went one exit too far on Bart like a noob. heading back toward the mall in two minutes
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tommorris kylewm: just leaving for there in a sec.
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KevinMarks_ about to bike over from the station
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kylewm just don't go up the curved escalators. dead end!
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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KartikPrabhu welcome kylewm-du-dome do you have a website? ;)
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kylewm-du-dome oui bien monsieur!
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KartikPrabhu cava bien!
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kylewm-du-dome I also have a free wifi hotspot that blocks my ZNC port
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KartikPrabhu lol
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KevinMarks_ evening all
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aaronpk evening
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 38 minutes ago: for which location was someone (or how many people) asking the high bar question?
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KevinMarks_ you can go up the curved escalators, but you have to stop after 3 and walk out to the right
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aaronpk KevinMarks_ ????
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KevinMarks_ that was in response to kylewm_
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tommorris.org edited /IRC_People (-78) "replacing image" (view diff)
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aaronpk oh ha
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KevinMarks_ I have my t-mobile tether
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aaronparecki.com edited /IndieWebCamps (-1) "/* Why is there a high bar for registering */ typo" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /IndieWebCamps (+21) "/* Why is there a high bar for registering */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ GWG are you here
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KevinMarks_ !tell GWG the mixed mf2 in microfomtas 1 is confusing parsers - see the "content" and "name" parsed here: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jeanmrussell.com%2Ftesting-brid-gy%2F
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KevinMarks_ !tell GWG we're discussing changing the back compatibility rules to not add mf2 properties to mf1 containers
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KevinMarks_ !tell GWG see http://logs.glob.uno/?c=freenode%23microformats&s=today#c77062
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG Was someone looking for me?
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Loqi GWG: KevinMarks_ left you a message 14 minutes ago: the mixed mf2 in microfomtas 1 is confusing parsers - see the "content" and "name" parsed here: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jeanmrussell.com%2Ftesting-brid-gy%2F
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Loqi GWG: KevinMarks_ left you a message 13 minutes ago: we're discussing changing the back compatibility rules to not add mf2 properties to mf1 containers
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Loqi GWG: KevinMarks_ left you a message 12 minutes ago: see http://logs.glob.uno/?c=freenode%23microformats&s=today#c77062
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KevinMarks_ hi, we're in #microformats trying to work out the mixed mode implications for parsres
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tantek welcome back GWG :)
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KevinMarks_ and what the constraints are with different combinations of plugins
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GWG That would be a problem for backwards compatibility, wouldn't it?
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KevinMarks_ that's what we're trying to work out - implied properties don't make sense for an mf1 marked-up post as that was never intended
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KevinMarks_ but if you have an mf1 container with mf2 contents, it gets trickire
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tantek !tell voxpelli I resent the webmention to KevinMarks's post and my face in the facepile now errantly links to my home page (tantek.com) instead of the like permalink: http://tantek.com/2015/016/f1 (but at least it changed in real time! it used to link to tantek.com/2015)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@tremaynett @everyone #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/557768344200560640)
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voxpelli tantek: it's actually meant to link to your profile like that, as it could only link to one or the other I thought the author profile was more interesting
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Loqi voxpelli: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 59 minutes ago: I resent the webmention to KevinMarks's post and my face in the facepile now errantly links to my home page (tantek.com) instead of the like permalink: http://tantek.com/2015/016/f1 (but at least it changed in real time! it used to link to tantek.com/2015)
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tantek huh - yet the retweets link to specific permalinks
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tantek seems to make more sense to link to a permalink (verification) when you have it
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tantek and then only fallback to author / profile links
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tantek.com edited /2014-review (+125) "/* Indie Term Re-use */ criticism overlap" (view diff)
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@elfpavlik @murdelta let's discuss doing @indiewebcamp at http://barcamp-graz.at/2015/01/barcamp-graz-2015-termin-location/ we already plan to hack in Graz mid Apr with @elevate_dan @peacekeeper (twitter.com/_/status/557821334324248577)
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@textformer Just bought my tickets for the next @btconf and @indiewebcamp in May in Düsseldorf. http://beyondtellerrand.com/ http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany (twitter.com/_/status/557822585636155392)
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@btconf @textformer @indiewebcamp welcome on board! Looking forward to say hello. #btconf (twitter.com/_/status/557822776674095104)
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@elfpavlik .@IndieHosters we discuss with @fkooman idea to deploy instance of https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth.com on https://auth.indiehosters.net +/-1? #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/557839244681830400)
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fkooman aaronpk: hi! i am having some problems with using indieauth with 'https://www.tuxed.net/fkooman', can you see what is going on? sometimes there is a TLS error, sometimes it doesn't find and rel links, sometimes only GitHub, but continuing with GitHub still doesn't work then :(
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Loqi Welcome to news about the IndieWeb where recent notable articles about the IndieWeb are cited and linked to keep you up to date https://indiewebcamp.com/going_on
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michielbdejong fkooman: if you click Re-Scan it gets the SSL error. But if you refresh the page it recognizes github.
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Loqi michielbdejong: KartikPrabhu left you a message 3 days, 9 hours ago: getting errors while webmentioning your Known site: https://indiewebcamp.com/Known#The_target_page_does_not_exist
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Loqi michielbdejong: tantek left you a message 2 days, 11 hours ago: I've tried sending webmentions to your new Known site but keep getting 400 errors, documented details here: https://indiewebcamp.com/Known#The_target_page_does_not_exist maybe a problem with your htaccess or Known configuration?
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michielbdejong This might be because of the bug where the IndieAuth server needs to be restarted every hour
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michielbdejong Maybe it will work in one hour
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@USEReadyInc Check out the BOLD NEW LOOK of @USEReadyInc http://www.useready.com #OwnYourData (twitter.com/_/status/557849251490045952)
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@lkafle RT @salisburymw: I hope my #BRCA testing saga helps to shed light on the problems facing genetic testing. #ownyourdata @techonomy http://t.… (twitter.com/_/status/557850264880041985)
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michielbdejong.com edited /Known (-180) "/* The target page does not exist */ mention workaround webmention problem" (view diff)
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@prash8187 RT @USEReadyInc: Check out the BOLD NEW LOOK of @USEReadyInc http://www.useready.com #OwnYourData (twitter.com/_/status/557854368335425537)
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michielbdejong !tell tantek thanks for reporting the webmention error, I found a workaround for it, should be working now.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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michielbdejong !tell KartikPrabhu thanks for reporting the webmention error, I found a workaround for it, should be working now.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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elf-pavlik michielbdejong, http://lanyrd.com/2015/indiewebcampger/
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elf-pavlik and in case you come hacking with us in Graz mid April we could try make one there as well :) https://twitter.com/elfpavlik/status/557821334324248577
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@elfpavlik @murdelta let's discuss doing @indiewebcamp at http://barcamp-graz.at/2015/01/barcamp-graz-2015-termin-location/ we already plan to hack in Graz mid Apr with @elevate_dan @peacekeeper (twitter.com/_/status/557821334324248577)
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@murdelta @elfpavlik @indiewebcamp @elevate_dan @peacekeeper Do you have any more information or are you just in early planning? (twitter.com/_/status/557876595701329920)
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@USEReady_DH RT @USEReadyInc: Check out the BOLD NEW LOOK of @USEReadyInc http://www.useready.com #OwnYourData (twitter.com/_/status/557894437360381952)
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Phyks bret: ty :)
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GWG I need some advice. Playing with models on my test site. Still needs refining, but if you go to tiny.n9n.us and click a photo, how does it look?
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@elfpavlik @murdelta just an idea, i need to check if at least one seasoned #IndieWeb participant could join! @marcthiele /cc @elevate_dan @peacekeeper (twitter.com/_/status/557921530680975360)
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@pfefferle @dougmckown I would start with the indieweb plugin https://github.com/indieweb/wordpress-indieweb and/or with that wiki page http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started_on_WordPress (twitter.com/_/status/557921762818936834)
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rascul http://tld-list.com
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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Loqi tantek: michielbdejong left you a message 6 hours, 36 minutes ago: thanks for reporting the webmention error, I found a workaround for it, should be working now.
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voxpelli good morning tantek!
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tantek catches up on logs
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KartikPrabhu so wordpress shows up as "bad" on HTTPS support: https://httpswatch.com/global
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GWG How so?
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: michielbdejong left you a message 6 hours, 42 minutes ago: thanks for reporting the webmention error, I found a workaround for it, should be working now.
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KartikPrabhu GWG: see link
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GWG Doesn't surprise me. But it makes it look like the open source software is
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kylewm this is wordpress.com not wordpress in general, right?
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GWG Yes.
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GWG WordPress the platform is as HTTPS as the person hosting it makes it
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Loqi [mention] http://luigimangili.it/?p=5 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Principles (pingback)
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@Nadreck @rstevens Look into Known. New system, indieweb focused. (twitter.com/_/status/557958550152945664)
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upon2020.com edited /Events (+555) "should have added this earlier" (view diff)
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@BennyLindemann Gerade gefunden: @wallabagapp Eine #DIY Alternative zu @pocket oder @instapaper Setup auf nem #RaspberryPi folgt! #OwnYourData #privacy (twitter.com/_/status/557961601500717057)
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@kevinmarks RT @Nadreck: @rstevens Look into Known. New system, indieweb focused. (twitter.com/_/status/557963174184751105)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: perhaps add that httpswatch thing about wordpress dot com to indiewebcamp.com/WordPress.com in a Criticism section?
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tantek !tell michielbdejong yes it worked! I got a 202 with that same curl command and the like showed up: https://michielbdejong.com/2015/joining-the-indie-web-my-motivation-cc-by-michiel-de-jong#comments Thank you for updating the Troubleshooting!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek michielbdejong++
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Loqi michielbdejong has 6 karma
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GWG I still need an opinion, if anyone is available.
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GWG I can't figure out the best way to do something
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pdurbin bret: do you remember chatting with me and tantek about DOIs? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-05-17#t1400365557000 ... this was interesting: http://crosstech.crossref.org/2015/01/problems-with-dx-doi-org-on-january-20th-2015-what-we-know.html
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bret heh, i do now pdurbin! ill check it out
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aaronpk fkooman: i'm getting an error that your ssl cert doesn't match the name, but it works fine for me in the browser
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bret pdurbin: that is super lulzy
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tantek pdurbin: wow.
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aaronpk tommorris had a great post about that https://tommorris.org/posts/9194
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bret documents need to cache their own references if they actually care about longevity, pointers cant be trusted long term!
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voxpelli I'm thinking of highlighting where a WebMention was posted and if it was posted through a third-party site, but can't really find any thoughts on how to best do that in the wiki
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bret also “let’s just give a number to everything” is about as antiquated as the phone number system lol
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voxpelli I noticed that eg. aaronpk only shows origin of mentions through favicons-like icons in the facepile
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pdurbin aaronpk: interesting. hadn't seen that
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aaronpk voxpelli: where a webmention was posted? how do you mean?
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voxpelli aaronpk: I meant on the site a WebMention mentioned
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voxpelli I was thinking something like "Published 2 days ago on [twitter.com] through [brid.gy]"
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aaronpk the icons I show are just twitter, facebook and instagram icons if the author URL matches that domain
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aaronpk I do something like that when I show vouched mentions now
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voxpelli Would love to give some cred to indieweb friendly tools like brid.gy and I guess something like app.net if they were to send WebMentions themselves
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aaronpk ah gotcha
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aaronpk there isn't really a mechanism in the webmention protocol for the webmention sender to authenticate itself
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voxpelli Twitter showing which apps a tweet was posted through was probably key in creating the thriving ecosystem it had
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aaronpk totally. people are already doing that with micropub posts
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voxpelli Yeah, I was thinking of initially matching the hostname of the source URL and the h-entry URL – source URL being Brid.gy, the h-entry URL being eg. Twitter
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aaronpk take a look at my notes or photos, they'll say "posted via quill.p3k.io" or "posted via ownyourgram.com"
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voxpelli cool!
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voxpelli Would it make sense to mark that data up so it could show on other sites pulling in that comment as well?
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aaronpk interesting
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aaronpk have there been any other webmention proxys or senders?
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voxpelli I guess some tools both do the micropub publishing and the pinging or such?
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voxpelli like https://github.com/bcomnes/gitpub I guess
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aaronpk there's also a difference between something like bridgy which is a proxy for webmentions vs things like the page on indiewebify.me which can send webmentions on your behalf
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aaronpk the difference is bridgy creates source URLs on its own, but indiewebify.me uses your own source URL
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voxpelli ownyourgram and bridgy is kind of similar only that ownyourgram pushes the data to your site whereas bridgy creates its own source URL
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voxpelli so if ownyourgram were to trigger webmentions it could be interesting to highlight it as the app/tool in WebMentions – and also in IndieReaders
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aaronpk oh like ownyourgram could send webmentions for comments on the instagram photos it posted?
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aaronpk (i'm unlikely to make it do that because bridgy already handles instagram, but I get your point)
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voxpelli yep, and my endpoint showing the mention as "posted 1 day ago on aaronparecki.com with ownyourgram"
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voxpelli so if that data could just be marked up somehow as part of the h-entry that would enable discoverability of tools in all readers
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tantek.com edited /Ello (+89) "/* See Also */ add oodbye.co critic site" (view diff)
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aaronpk i like the idea. thinking about how to display it and how to determine what was used for webmentions
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voxpelli aaronpk: can't really find the "posted via quill.p3k.io" on your site, am I perhaps looking in the wrong place?
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aaronpk here's one http://aaron.pk/b4_B1
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voxpelli seems like you are already marking it up with u-client-id, great!
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aaronpk oh hey!
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aaronpk forgot I did that ;)
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voxpelli and then there's http://indiewebcamp.com/h-x-app on the Quill page, nice!
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aaronpk yes!
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aaronpk indieauth.com parses that to show the app name and icon when you're signing in
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aaronparecki.com edited /h-x-app (+517) "add quill and wiki examples" (view diff)
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aaronpk so i'm totally stumped on this fkooman thing
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aaronpk when the server is running the indieauth.com code, it gets an ssl error trying to fetch https://www.tuxed.net/fkooman/
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aaronpk but when I go to the server and drop into the interactive shell, I can fetch it just fine
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aaronpk fkooman: the server doesn't seem to have any problem fetching https://tuxed.net/fkooman/ ... is there a particular reason you're using the "www" prefix?
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@mshook Bridgy https://www.brid.gy/ #via #viavia #known #withknown #social #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/557982295148097537)
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@4winner RT @Nadreck: @rstevens Look into Known. New system, indieweb focused. (twitter.com/_/status/557995551279419392)
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cweiske is anyone using the firefox social api for his micropub client?
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tantek this is good: https://tommorris.org/posts/9194
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tantek sees that tommorris 's site supports receiving webmentions but wonders if likes are displayed anywhere (or fallback to comments)
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cweiske semanticscuttle (bookmark manager) using the firefox social api for bookmarking: http://fotostore.cweiske.de/screenshots/2015-01-21%20firefox%20semanticscuttle%20social%20api%20bookmarks.png
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kylewm cweiske: Known has a social API post interface, but not micropub
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cweiske native browser support for bookmarking and sharing
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cweiske isn't that what indieactions wanted?
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GWG KevinMarks_: Get Jeff Jarvis onto the Indieweb?
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GWG To stop posting snippets on his own site and full pieces of his book on medium?
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KevinMarks_ he's not on this week - at Davos
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GWG Oh well
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GWG How about getting me some people for an HWC in NYC?
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GWG You could also recruit for SFO, CHI, PDX, and wherever else they are looking
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GWG STL and BLI are looking too, according to http://indiewebcamp.com/hwc
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tantek This is an interesting idea for /create UI: https://twitter.com/shanley/status/557309622378172416
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@shanley is there a text editor that you write in it like a twitter interface lol (twitter.com/_/status/557309622378172416)
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tantek and follow-up: https://twitter.com/iroc/status/557317278002188290
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@iroc @shanley I have long wanted some kind of service where you can chat w/ an intelligent bot or rep in an IM window as a way to churn out ideas (twitter.com/_/status/557317278002188290)
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tantek isn't that kind of what we have in #indiewebcamp IRC? "write in a like a twitter interface" (limited to n? chars)
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tantek though Loqi is not quite "can chat w/ an intelligent bot"… yet ;)
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sebastian.kip.pe edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+458) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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voxpelli Is there a mf2 equivilant to rel-home? Or what's the prefered way to point out the frontpage on eg. a h-entry page?
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bret voxpelli: isnt that just the URL of the author?
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tantek voxpelli: since it's a page-to-page relationship, not sure what else you need beyond rel-home
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tantek as in - what use-case are you trying to solve?
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voxpelli tantek: trying to add a "posted 2 days ago on <site name>" to comments
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rascul ponders serving his site from ramdisk
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tantek voxpelli: that sounds like you're looking for h-feed p-name
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voxpelli tantek: I want a link for it as well though
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tantek oh wait you said *comments*
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Loqi gives voxpelli a link for it as well though
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aaronpk rascul: doesn't the OS cache stuff in RAM anyway?
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voxpelli commentas as in WebMentioned imported h-entries
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tantek presuming you're already using h-cite to markup comments
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tantek then use p-publisher for marking up the site name / source
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rascul aaronpk yes but there's no way to be sure it stays there or for how long
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rascul well, not without a bunch of hacks anyway
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tantek looks for an example
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aaronpk i bet someone has tried this before
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bret rascul: do you use config management at all for your servers?
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rascul bret i don't
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tantek sounds like work
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rascul ramdisk is easy :)
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voxpelli tantek: sorry for not being clear with what I'm doing – so I'm importing a post after they have WebMentioned me and I want to link to the front page of the site that the original post was posted on – not the author archive
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aaronpk voxpelli: under what circumstances do you expect the "front page of the site" to be different from the author's URL?
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tantek I'd agree with aaronpk - why "front page" of the site? there's no proof that the post was ever on the "front page" of the site
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voxpelli aaronpk: multi-author blogs for example
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rascul i'm doing big server changes right now though, so site changes aren't viable for me quite yet
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tantek and thus the text "posted on …" is potentially misleading
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voxpelli or indie-friendly sites like app.net
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bret rascul: i just started playing with ansible over the last few weeks, captured a lot of my dev machine configuration into a repository: https://github.com/bcomnes/ansible-dotfiles next step is capturing server config
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tantek voxpelli: seems like noise in the UI on your side
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rascul bret i'm building tiny, single purpose read only virtual machines with buildroot to run things in
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bret ahh
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bret cool
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tantek voxpelli: consider instead "posted using …" (name of tool or site)
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bret complexity--
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Loqi complexity has -1 karma
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tantek which has more prior art
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voxpelli tantek: it would add nice discoverability for tools though + many are already hard-coding similar solutions for the biggest silos, highlighting content from just twitter and similar
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tantek then "Posted using …" not "Posted on ..."
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Loqi [bridgy] ♕ Suzanne Zaleski ♕ replied '@gRegorLove how is mommer doing?' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club (https://twitter.com/MsSwank/status/558013135932899330)
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tantek and yeah I've been using poshformat class name for "using" for sometime
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voxpelli sure, would rel-home be the right thing to use then for "site"?
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rascul bret when i get it running (almost there, just got over the last major hurdle) i'll work on publicly documenting what i did, someone might find it interesting
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tantek it would - however it wouldn't give you something accurate for "Posted on …"
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tantek since like I said - any particular post might not have ever been on the "home" page
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voxpelli I meant for your suggestion of "Posted using..."
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aaronpk here's more prior art for this... hackernews!
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aaronpk it shows the domain name of the URL of submissions
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tantek voxpelli: no - rel-home is not right for "tool"
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tantek more like the work that aaronpk has been doing with micropub and app
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tantek and linking to the *tool* home page, not the home page of the person posting
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KevinMarks_ rel-generator?
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tantek anybody use that KevinMarks?
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aaronpk I used "u-client-id" in my markup because it's the value of the client ID used during IndieAuth
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voxpelli tantek: arronpk's work on tools was what I'm going to use, the u-client-id, but wanted more
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tantek e.g. for your Tweet compilations … does it say noterlive? ;)
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KevinMarks_ that's the atom name for it, from hAtom
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tantek yeah client-id sounds like an opaque number / code
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voxpelli ideally I would like the same discoverability of tools as Twitter had when their ecosystem was thriving – every tweet having a link to the app which posted it – doing the same for eg. brid.gy would be nice – will just try something with client-id then
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tantek what are tools?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "tools" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=tools
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tantek voxpelli: now that is a very good use-case. please stub it out there ^^^
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tantek capturing such use-cases is very valuable
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voxpelli will do
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voxpelli btw, known that the wiki doesn't redirect to https but that indieauth only logs you in on https, not http?
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aaronpk yes it's confusing
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aaronpk I want to redirect everything but need an image proxy first to avoid mixed content warnings
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GWG aaronpk: I know a cheap CDN that supports https, if that helps
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aaronpk not really. I need to figure out how to make a mediawiki filter that can rewrite hotlinked image URLs
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aaronpk and then run an image proxy somewhere
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kodfabrik.se created /tools (+765) "First stab at writing down thoughts around tools discoverability" (view diff)
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voxpelli aaronpk: perhaps you can take a look at that page and add some of your thoughts as well=
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aaronpk oh hey i just remembered there's a whole section on that here http://indiewebcamp.com/giving-credit#Crediting_Applications
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GWG is reading the /photo page
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GWG Anyone have any good photo post thoughts?
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aaronpk just had a thought
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aaronpk the work snarfed and I did in webmention.io to make it show nice sentences here is great, and I don't want to re-create the logic in PHP for my site
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aaronpk I'm wondering if I can have my site send a copy of all my webmentions to webmention.io so that it generates the text for me
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voxpelli aaronpk: giving-crdit, nice! makes the new page unnecessary for now :P
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aaronpk or perhaps we can move the crediting apps section to tools, since the credit page also talks about crediting people
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kylewm !tell snarfed I'm looking at the facebook API, it seems there is no way to find a post ID from its URL anymore?? (or a user ID from their username). I must be wrong right?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm oh yeah the facebook API is super broken
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aaronpk what else is new?
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kylewm aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 669 karma
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kylewm !tell snarfed here's an example, I tried to like this status, got a 403 because you can't look up the post by its bare ID https://kylewm.com/2015/01/burn
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed kylewm: looking
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Loqi snarfed: kylewm left you a message 13 minutes ago: I'm looking at the facebook API, it seems there is no way to find a post ID from its URL anymore?? (or a user ID from their username). I must be wrong right?
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Loqi snarfed: kylewm left you a message 2 minutes ago: here's an example, I tried to like this status, got a 403 because you can't look up the post by its bare ID https://kylewm.com/2015/01/burn
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snarfed i've been working in this area a lot recently for https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/349 , https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/347 , etc
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snarfed ah. yes. for a url like that - https://www.facebook.com/stephanie.rodgers.980/posts/10100784173551758 - you may have to look up graph.facebook.com/v2.2/stephanie.rodgers.980, grab her id, then prefix it to the post id
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snarfed sucks huh
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kylewm i've been following along, that's what made me hopeful that you could lookup by username
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Loqi hehe
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kylewm that second lookup doesn't work though
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snarfed by bare username yes, but they don't usually support USERNAME_OBJECTID
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snarfed well you need a token :P
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kylewm "message": "(#803) Cannot query users by their username (stephanie.rodgers.980)",
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kylewm no i'm doing it in the API Exploder
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snarfed ahhh right. works for pages, but not for users? huh
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snarfed ugh, then yeah, you did all your homework. maybe via search?
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snarfed hrmph
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snarfed so one hard problem in sw/system development is schema migration without downtime. you can do it by supporting both old and new while you transform old data, then remove the code paths for the old
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kylewm http://stackoverflow.com/questions/26062011/facebook-graph-api-2-1-get-userid-from-username#comment40836448_26062011
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snarfed FB is good at the availability ("without downtime") part, but awful at removing the old code paths
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snarfed they never do
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snarfed that's (imho) the primary cause of aaronpk's "super broken" comment
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aaronpk what's my super broken comment?
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snarfed oh nm kylewm said that :P
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kylewm aaronpk just agreed with me
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snarfed anyway, keeping all old code around leaks up above the API and causes problems like this :/
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snarfed (obligatory: migration is hard, let's go shopping)
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kylewm but this is a feature that was explicitly removed in 2.0 right?
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snarfed just read the SO post. are you effing kidding me, you can't look up by username any more?!?!?!?!?
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snarfed (and i've seen wizkid on other FB SO q's, he generally knows what he's talking about)
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snarfed ugh, horrible
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kylewm it's bad news for Bridgy Publish doing any kind of replies/likes/shares of facebook posts :(
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snarfed yes, yes it is :(
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kylewm and it also makes it impossible for me to fetch reply context from a facebook post
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snarfed what i *still* don't get is when a bare post id will work and when it won't
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kylewm yeah, that is very confusing
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snarfed sometimes i think it's consistent to certain post types, but i always find a counterexample
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snarfed in other news, i went through FB review for the read_stream permission for a-u and got rejected :(
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kylewm ah interesting
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kylewm but you can just have people generate their own app id like for twitter-atom right?
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snarfed and they've explicitly denied it to feed reader use cases before, and talked to press about it, so i didn't bother applying for facebook-atom
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snarfed yeah that's what i'll have to do for fb-a
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KevinMarks_ talking knowledge graph and microformats on TWiG
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snarfed what i find funny is that they explicitly endorse an app that asks you to generate yoru own app key for personal use
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snarfed finding the link
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GWG KevinMarks_: I'll catch it on the DL
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kylewm tuning in KevinMarks_
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kylewm gray day in san jose
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GWG kylewm: Do you know the way there?
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snarfed hey kylewm, i can't see that stephanie rodgers post. would you mind skimming it to see if you can find anything unusual?
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snarfed any possible reason that one can't be looked up by id
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KevinMarks_ what is my tool or tip of the week
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "my tool or tip of the week" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=my+tool+or+tip+of+the+week
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kylewm snarfed: it's the same thing with https://www.facebook.com/ben.werdmuller/posts/10101055597765779
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snarfed KevinMarks_: http://tld-list.com/ ?
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kylewm which is public and someone we're both friends with
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snarfed kylewm: thx
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snarfed kylewm: oh man and that's a pure text post too, no picture or location or link or anything. goddamn.
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KevinMarks_ any shiny new indieweb things?
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snarfed KevinMarks_: https://github.com/snarfed/ownyourcheckin ? automatic pesos for FB checkins
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snarfed meh
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snarfed supports any wordpress, so it's accessible ish at least
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snarfed kylewm: filed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/350
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tantek checks logs
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tantek good afternoon #indiewebcamp!
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snarfed hey tantek
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kylewm snarfed: do you know if bridgy have privileges to run /me/taggable_friends?
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snarfed kylewm: not sure. fb docs should say if/which perms it needs, and https://developers.facebook.com/apps/256884317673197/review-status/ says which bridgy has (you should be able to see that)
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snarfed tantek: current status, 1) KevinMarks_ is on a podcast and needs a new indieweb thing to plug
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KevinMarks_ I mentioned microformats in the editorial bit already
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snarfed 2) looks like FB v2.0 API breaks bridgy publish for some posts…but not all…and we have no way to tell them apart yet :(
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tantek Kevinmarks - any feedback on microformats2?
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tantek checks recent changes
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tantek KevinMarks - got one for you!
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KevinMarks_ ok
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KevinMarks_ ?
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tantek mention 10 year anniversary of rel=tag, the distributed tagging standard we developed, which was eventually incorporated into HTML5
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tantek and as the follow-up
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tantek as in, then recently...
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tantek we've figured out distriibuted *person* tagging on the IndieWeb
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tantek so just as silos like FB, IG, Flickr let you tag people in posts and photos
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tantek we have figured out how to do that in your own posts
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tantek AND on other people's posts
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KevinMarks_ We wer discussing h-cards and author markup already
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tantek up level to user feature
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KevinMarks_ contrasting google dropping it and us doing it indieweb
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KevinMarks_ for webmentions
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tantek great
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/person-tag
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tantek built on top of h-card and webmention as well
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tantek many ways to combine the fundamental building blocks of microformats and webmention
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tantek person-tagging is a big deal because 1) you can only do it on silos currently, and 2) this is the first open standards proposal to do so using simple HTML, from one website peer to peer to another
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aaronpk tantek is writing a whole blog post, one line of IRC at a time!
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tantek and this leads into - you have a sample of it on your own site
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tantek http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2014-11-19.html
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kylewm snarfed: so it says you need user_friends (which we have) and also "usage of this edge requires review of your app"
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tantek lol aaronpk - hence I quoted Shanley's tweet above asking for that
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tantek "text editor that you write in it like a twitter interface"
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kylewm we have like a real weird cyrano debergerac situation going on here
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tantek is there some place we can listen to the podcast live?
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kylewm http://live.twit.tv/
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kylewm it's wrapping up
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snarfed kylewm: "review of your app" usually just means to get the perm
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snarfed so if we have it, then maybe it theoretically should work
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KevinMarks_ heh
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kylewm.com edited /Facebook (+974) "/* Downtime */ add API issues" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ I didn't read t's points until afterwards
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KevinMarks_ :D
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KevinMarks_ Shanley wants noterlive.com?
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kylewm KevinMarks_: lol you guys were on the same page!
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tantek it's really new
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millette speaking of people tagging, I remember foaf - but I forget, what did wordpress offer with its blogroll feature, to tag family and friends?
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tantek XFN
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millette ah, thanks!
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tantek but that was for describing the relationship, rather than person tagging
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KevinMarks_ leo is now trying webmention.herokuapp.com
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snarfed "WaaS"
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snarfed done
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snarfed :P
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tantek what is WaaS?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "WaaS" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=WaaS
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tantek ;)
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tantek KevinMarks_: with indieweb, you choose your own level of tinkering that you want.
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@amblin @phollows @copyblogger Then.you'll also likely like https://indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/558048078138474496)
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GWG Note WordPress disabled blogroll, later links by default a while back
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tantek GWG - because blogrolls fell out of fashion
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tantek what is sharecropping?
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Loqi sharecropping in the context of the IndieWeb is the practice of primarily or exclusively creating/publishing content on silos as opposed to doing so first (or primarily) on your own site, and those that do publish primarily or exclusively on silos are known as sharecroppers https://indiewebcamp.com/sharecropping
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tantek what is digital sharecropping?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "digital sharecropping" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=digital+sharecropping
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tantek.com created /digital_sharecropping (+27) "r" (view diff)
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GWG tantek: So....telling people what sites you thought were important is unfashionable?
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tantek GWG - blogrolls were originally about people, not just "sites"
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tantek GWG - having them in a semi-static sidebar became unfashionable
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millette and 404s
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KevinMarks_ I stll have one, though it is a lot of 404s
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aaronpk isn't that basically a "following" list like how twitter and facebook show it?
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millette what is xfn?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "xfn" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=xfn
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tantek aaronpk - it kind of served that role
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tantek heh
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KevinMarks_ http://epeus.blogspot.com/#thoughts+I+read
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millette with a vocabulary saying if it's family, friend, coworker, etc.
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GWG tantek: I usually had a page for them.
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tantek millette: MySQL indexing/search bug
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KevinMarks_ twitter used to have xfn markup on it
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tantek see https://indiewebcamp.com/XFN
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tantek and as KevinMarks just demonstrated - quickly falls out of date
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tantek too much of a chore to maintain
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tantek of course not that pruning / updating followings etc has gotten much (any?) better
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kylewm http://dashes.com/anil/#footer
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kylewm is one too
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tantek any of those 404?
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kylewm that'd be a nice browser extension that shows 404 links as crossed out, like wikipedia
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millette I have a weird feeling indieweb appeals to old school webbers, but not so popular with the new crowd. I hope I am wrong.
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tantek some used it more like Anil - as a way of recommending or framing publishers
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tantek millette: depends which old school and which new school you speak of
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tantek could you be more specific?
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kylewm 3 404s (or equivalent) on Anil's list
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tantek kylewm: evidence that he hasn't touched it in a while
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millette people you used to have blogs, some who handcoded html, don't depend on js for everything, etc.
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KevinMarks_ who supports homepage webmentions?
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aaronpk What do you mean supports?
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tantek millette: almost no one hand codes HTML any more. many handcode templates however, which includes some HTML handcoding (typically)
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millette As I said before, I was involved with indie/fedweb until 4-5 years ago. It's good to return, but I see reckognise to many names :-)
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aaronpk I accept them and show them on aaronparecki.com/mentions along with the others
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KevinMarks_ if I send the webmentions for all the HWC people I tagged, will they a) know about it b) show it on their site?
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millette yes, templates - some understanding of html required.
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tantek millette: did you attend the 2010 Federated Social Web Summit?
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millette I don't go out much :-(
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KevinMarks_ sends them anyway
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tantek curious what you mean by "was involved with indie/fedweb"
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millette coming to this channel a last week reminded me of #joiito
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KevinMarks_ apparently only 3
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tantek hah! yeah - that's probably because KevinMarks and I met on #joiito ;)
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millette I was a laconica developper and developped a bunch of little tools (all gone)
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tantek so there's some #joiito cultural DNA here, subconsciously at least
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KevinMarks_ #joiito has a slack now
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tantek millette: did you preserve your own laconica install on your own site and keep your permalinks working?
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tantek KevinMarks_: and Joi posts updates on LinkedIn instead of his own site :/
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millette no, I've been a uncool